Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 5x04 - "Face the Strange"

[Cr0sis21]

That is not for us to decide. Garak could've been made into a main character instead of adding a new Dax, but the showrunners decided otherwise. Even if Adira turned out to be a wasted opportunity, that doesn't mean they had no right to be created in the first place, and especially nothing dictates that Keyla or any or the other existing secondary characters be elevated into the main cast in their place other than your own existing interest in them. There's no binding law of storytelling that requires telling more stories about them.

The whole Dax situation was a badly handled debacle that maligned the entire final season.
Adira WAS a wasted opportunity, on almost every front.
And the only true rule in storytelling is, tell a story people want to hear.

Again I ask why? What about Detmer's character and Coutt's performance has earned this? I'm not seeing this. She's a competent actress but no "spark".
What part would Detmer play in the storylines of Season three? Not Adira's part, that's for sure.

Coutts's appeal is the very definition of opinion. A lot of people do like her, though (And Owo as well)
But Adira's part? Anybody could have done it. They're a plot device, a cipher. What do we know about them? Where are this 16-year-old's parents? Why were they on a generation ship? How did they end up back on Earth, in the military? How did she get into Starfleet? What's their favorite food? Hell, what's their last name?
It's maddening because the only reason Adira has a Trill symbiont is because that's what they needed for the plot. It's never even been brought up since then.
So whatever part Adira played could have been done with, literally, anyone else. Aside from the Trill story, which was a one-off, any character could fill the role she played in the Kelpian ship.

 

[SJGardner]

The whole Dax situation was a badly handled debacle that maligned the entire final season.

Once again, a matter of taste. I've found Ezri a good and relatable character who came off really believably as someone struggling to fill in the shoes she was given against her will.

And the only true rule in storytelling is, tell a story people want to hear.

Even that's not a rule but a guideline, and a quite vague one at that. A lot of people have their expectations subverted but end up still liking what they got, while others get exactly what they wanted to hear and find it lacking in the end. And who is this nebulous "people" whose tastes we will need to conform? Star Trek fans aren't a monolith who all want the same. You won't find me cursing the creators for not sending Tilly back to the 23rd century to make her the audience surrogate character in Strange New Worlds. And it's not like writers are polling their audiences before writing every single chapter or episode. Should we really hamstring them by forcing them to constantly rewrite everything they plotted out and even fire actors with multi-year contracts or force others who are taking a smaller role as a side gig into playing a main character role based on how they were polling with the audience - or rather, a sample of the audience that may or may not even reflect the whole?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Coutts's appeal is the very definition of opinion. A lot of people do like her, though (And Owo as well)

Again I ask why? Sell me on her. Going back a few pages what's her personality? What sets her apart from Owo, Rhys or Bryce? Someone like McCoy has definite traits: Irascible, old fashioned, bleeding hearted with a barbed sense of humor. What are Detmer's traits?

But Adira's part? Anybody could have done it. They're a plot device, a cipher. What do we know about them? Where are this 16-year-old's parents? Why were they on a generation ship? How did they end up back on Earth, in the military? How did she get into Starfleet? What's their favorite food? Hell, what's their last name?

Where are the Parents? dead (Forget Me Not)
Why on the generation ship? To find Federation HQ (Forget Me Not)
Why on Earth? Sent there after the Generation ship was destroyed where they joined the United Earth Defense Force. Possibly out of gratitude. (Forget Me Not)
How did they get in Starfleet? Was part of an inspection team from the United Earth Defense Force that boarded Discovery. Later transferred to Starfleet. (People of Earth. That Hope Is You, Part 2)
Favorite food? Hasn't been covered to my knowledge
What is their last name? As a host their last name is the name of their symbiont "Tal"

It's maddening because the only reason Adira has a Trill symbiont is because that's what they needed for the plot. It's never even been brought up since then.

Possibly. Though I would think the whole Gray subplot is related to it

So whatever part Adira played could have been done with, literally, anyone else. Aside from the Trill story, which was a one-off, any character could fill the role she played in the Kelpian ship.

They do a lot of "sciencing". Like modifying the Spore Drive Interface. Plus the character is in play from the Trill storyline, which ties into the search for the Federation storyline, which ties into the Burn storyline. So why not use them?
You can't complain about sidelining characters and then turn around and demand a character be sidelined.
Obviously the showrunners like the character of Adira. They like the representation. They like the concept of found family.

 

[Mr Awe]

You know, this whole thing really started because I said I was annoyed that it took this long to find out Rhys was chief of security.
I'm an actual fan of DSC, but I guess heaven forbid I actually have critiques of it. The way some of you guys knee-jerk your responses, you'd think the general mindset is that DSC has been a flawless show this while time

Agreed. I think my take is pretty similar. I'm more bemoaning the fact that we're in this situation at the end of the series where the bridge crew are still largely unknown. I don't think there's much to do at this point. I agree with previous comments made by some who don't particularly want to see the current bridge character's roles expanding. Yeah, I'm not that interested in them either!

But it would've been nice if they had developed more interesting bridge characters from the beginning. You know there will be key scenes there. It seems logical to have characters you know about and are invested in those scenes.

I, too, enjoy Discovery. It's not my favorite ST series but I watch and usually enjoy it. It's certainly not without its flaws though.

 

[fireproof78]

But it would've been nice if they had developed more interesting bridge characters from the beginning. You know there will be key scenes there. It seems logical to have characters you know about and are invested in those scenes.

Logical, but ultimately unnecessary from a story point of view. I get that people have their preferences, and I have stated mine time and again about characters in TOS or TNG sidelined that I found interesting (Stiles, Tomlinson, Giotto, etc). But, when it comes down to it, the bridge is not always going to get the most interesting characters. It just isn't. We had no names on TOS, on TNG, etc. and no where did I see people say "Boy, I wish we had more of this character!" But, on Discovery, which sets out with different goals of characters, with Burnham as the lead, and Saru, Stamets, Culber and Tilly all in secondary roles, this show will not conform to the expectations. It just won't.

I would love the current crew to expand more, because I enjoy them enough, but it's not their story. I knew Rhys was at tactical (not security) since Season 1, so clearly I pick up on some things other didn't though.

I feel this is just another disappointment with a perceived slight on the part of the production team not picking out our favorite characters to explore and instead focusing on Burnham.

 

[Mr Awe]

Again, I maintain the reason why people wanted "more" out of characters like Owo and Detmer (and Airiam, before she died) was because of a weird disconnect between the design/direction of Season 1 and the writing.

Berman-era Trek had plenty of background extras who appeared at bridge stations. Some on Voyager were there for 100+ episodes. But they played nondescript human characters with boring haircuts, who not only seldom got lines, but seldom even were the focus of a shot. The visual design and camerawork let us know they weren't important, so we ignored them.

DIS didn't do the same. The background bridge characters often had cool design elements, like Owo's hair, Detmer's scars, undercut, and cybernetic implants, and everything about Airiam. There was bound to be speculation about them as a result. Add to this that the camera would actually focus on them for "reaction shots" when Michael or another main cast member delivered a line. The visual elements told us they were important, and so we wanted more. It did this less with some of the male extras, like Bryce, which is why people cared a lot less about them.

I'd agree with those points. But I'd also add that in almost all previous ST series from TNG on, the majority of bridge characters were characters that we not only knew but knew extremely well. Their histories, parents, etc. They were very well developed. These people who we grew to know in detail were the ones handling the big crisis on the bridge.

LD is the exception, proving it can work. However, I still feel like we know the LD bridge characters better than those on DIS.

I guess in the end its a variety of things. It's not a deal breaker by any means. DIS definitely has characters I enjoy.

 

[Mr Awe]

Now, I will admit the critiques "the bridge crew are underdeveloped" and "Character X should be main cast" are pet peeves of mine. This is after all a discussion board.

I would've never guessed!

But it's all cool. It goes to your last point. It sure would be a dull place if we all agreed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'd agree with those points. But I'd also add that in almost all previous ST series from TNG on, the majority of bridge characters were characters that we not only knew but knew extremely well. Their histories, parents, etc. They were very well developed. These people who we grew to know in detail were the ones handling the big crisis on the bridge.

So DISCO broke the mold. Is that really a bad thing? The problem with "bridge characters" is what to do with them when there is no crisis on the bridge. One of the reasons Geordie went from the bridge to engineering is they realized having a main character in engineering is a plus. All subsequent shows have made sure there was an engineer regular. Spreading your mains through out the ship opens up the story telling.

 

[Mr Awe]

Logical, but ultimately unnecessary from a story point of view.

I'd agree it's not necessary. As I've mentioned, LD shows us it can work.

But, when it comes down to it, the bridge is not always going to get the most interesting characters.

Seems like you should have the main characters that you know well dealing with the big crisis that occur on the bridge. I agree though it's not 100% necessary. It's not a deal breaker for me but also not my preference.

I feel this is just another disappointment with a perceived slight on the part of the production team not picking out our favorite characters to explore and instead focusing on Burnham.

For me at least it's not that. Quite the opposite. The bridge characters as they are currently are a bit dull. Don't really want more of them! I agree with others saying the actors don't really have that spark. So, I'm NOT suggesting just to expand their roles. This goes further to when they were originally populating the characters/actors. It's not going to be something they can address now really. Well I suppose with Rayner they are.

Anyway, none of that is a deal breaker. Just my druthers.

 

[fireproof78]

The bridge characters as they are currently are a bit dull.

At the risk of sounding thick, this is bad? Like, most of the bridge characters on other shows could be a bit dry and dull too. The focus was always on the main characters. So, I feel like there's a line I'm missing between bridge characters and main characters? Maybe I'm closer to @Nerys Myk about wanting them more spread out and not as focused on the bridge. Perhaps that the difference?

More than that, I feel like, at 5 years in, this is really closing the barn door after the herd has left the barn. These characters are too dull so...? Now, in the 5th season, they're still dull. So, go back and time and recast even though back in time the purpose of the show was to focus on Burnham?

Again, not trying to be thick, but this is an interesting point of view (to me) that shows a different preference that I would like to understand, though I might not.

 

[Mr Awe]

So DISCO broke the mold. Is that really a bad thing? The problem with "bridge characters" is what to do with them when there is no crisis on the bridge. One of the reasons Geordie went from the bridge to engineering is they realized having a main character in engineering is a plus. All subsequent shows have made sure there was an engineer regular. Spreading your mains through out the ship opens up the story telling.

No, not bad at all. It's just that LD does it better, making DIS pale in comparison in terms of that specific arrangement.

Well, you do what the other ST series have done with the bridge officers who aren't handling a crisis on the bridge, you give them a multitude of other things to do. Picard, Riker, Troi, Data, and Worf often had other stuff going on! Even Geordi who again was in engineering but often transfer it to the bridge. Same with the other series. Yeah, they spread them out but they also had them come back to the bridge for those scenes.

I do agree with you though that at this point I don't have an interest in seeing more of the current DIS bridge crew for pretty much the same reasons as you state. Again, just my druthers, it would've been nice to have had more interesting characters/actors in place to develop from the beginning. LD is a good model for that.

 

[Mr Awe]

At the risk of sounding thick, this is bad? Like, most of the bridge characters on other shows could be a bit dry and dull too.

I'd say that yes it is bad to have dull characters when they're the bridge characters handling a crisis. Some caveats. Yes, there will be those random characters to fill spots. That's fine. And that doesn't mean that everyone handling the crisis must be a main character. But go back to that TNG bridge photo. Five of the nine characters on the bridge were main characters that knew very well. And they generally drove those scenes. So, you've got the characters we know the best dealing with the big crisis on the bridge.

But, I'll say it again, LD shows that it can be different. They take another approach that works.

More than that, I feel like, at 5 years in, this is really closing the barn door after the herd has left the barn. These characters are too dull so...? Now, in the 5th season, they're still dull. So, go back and time and recast even though back in time the purpose of the show was to focus on Burnham?

Again, not trying to be thick, but this is an interesting point of view (to me) that shows a different preference that I would like to understand, though I might not.

I agree with you on that point entirely. This isn't something they're going to fix now and I've said that multiple times. They might address it and spice it up a bit--see Rayner. But they're not going to fix it now.

I only pointed it out in my reviews because it just feels odd to me have so many people on the bridge towards the end of the series that we really don't know well. Obviously, YMMV!

 

[Nerys Myk]

For a ship based show you usually need the Captain, the Doctor and the Engineer. Secondary to them the XO, a science guy and a security guy. The rest are well, tertiary. IMO, of course.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, not bad at all. It's just that LD does it better, making DIS pale in comparison in terms of that specific arrangement.

Well, you do what the other ST series have done with the bridge officers who aren't handling a crisis on the bridge, you give them a multitude of other things to do. Picard, Riker, Troi, Data, and Worf often had other stuff going on! Even Geordi who again was in engineering but often transfer it to the bridge. Same with the other series. Yeah, they spread them out but they also had them come back to the bridge for those scenes.

I do agree with you though that at this point I don't have an interest in seeing more of the current DIS bridge crew for pretty much the same reasons as you state. Again, just my druthers, it would've been nice to have had more interesting characters/actors in place to develop from the beginning. LD is a good model for that.

Troi being on the bridge was ridiculous. Why was she there? Counselor is not a bridge position. Geordi coming to bridge during a crisis is pretty lame. Yeah, you too Doctor Crusher,
Bu, hey. Got to have some face to face acting. And I guess it might be cheaper to use the one set.

 

[Mr Awe]

Troi being on the bridge was ridiculous. Why was she there? Counselor is not a bridge position. Geordi coming to bridge during a crisis is pretty lame. Yeah, you too Doctor Crusher,
Bu, hey. Got to have some face to face acting. And I guess it might be cheaper to use the one set.

Can't say I disagree on a general basis. I'm sure there were specific occasions where Troi or Crusher might be needed. But the bulk of the characters who were legitimately there were main characters: Picard, Riker, Data, Worf.

But, yeah, there were "TV show" reasons for having the others there too. And, well, it is a TV show after all so those aren't totally unreasonable.

 

[Nerys Myk]

But the bulk of the characters who were legitimately there were main characters: Picard, Riker, Data, Worf.

Yep those are legit bridge characters. Though not sure the XO and the CO on the bridge makes sense from a tactical standpoint. But from a TV standpoint? sure.

 

[Mr Awe]

Yep those are legit bridge characters. Though not sure the XO and the CO on the bridge makes sense from a tactical standpoint. But from a TV standpoint? sure.

I'm not a naval expert but I believe that practice isn't uncommon in the real world at least. The CO makes the decisions while the XO deals with the others to make sure they're carried out. The CO and XO might confer as well. But yeah TV reasons trump all anyway.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Troi being on the bridge was ridiculous. Why was she there? Counselor is not a bridge position. Geordi coming to bridge during a crisis is pretty lame. Yeah, you too Doctor Crusher,
Bu, hey. Got to have some face to face acting. And I guess it might be cheaper to use the one set.

The whole conceit of the character was ridiculous. It was an attempt to merge two unrelated professions solely based on the word-play double meaning of 'consul'. Worse is neither one really amounted to much and was wasted potential.

They could have either had her go full diplomat with the title of "envoy" or something, truly embracing the idea that she was the voice in Picard's head counter to Riker. There'd even be some dramatic potential tapping into the politics of the time flirting with the idea that her position can sometimes have a striking likeness to a political officer.

Or they could have given her an actual PhD in psychology or psychiatry and really shed a "Trekian" light on mental health decades ahead of pop culture.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd say that yes it is bad to have dull characters when they're the bridge characters handling a crisis. Some caveats. Yes, there will be those random characters to fill spots. That's fine. And that doesn't mean that everyone handling the crisis must be a main character. But go back to that TNG bridge photo. Five of the nine characters on the bridge were main characters that knew very well. And they generally drove those scenes. So, you've got the characters we know the best dealing with the big crisis on the bridge.

And again, I'll say the characters on Discovery are ones that I know, and want to follow, Burnham, Saru in particular. Then you have secondary and tertiary characters who I also know well enough (Detmer, Owo, Rhys) to be familiar as the action unfolds. So I don't see the need to know the characters very well. Just familiar and I'll follow them.

Maybe I'm unlike most people. My favorite episode is Balance of Terror, and the characters I'm invested in are Stiles and Tomlinson.

I only pointed it out in my reviews because it just feels odd to me have so many people on the bridge towards the end of the series that we really don't know well. Obviously, YMMV!

Indeed it does. There are many bridge characters I just don't care to know. Being on the bridge doesn't make you special.

There'd even be some dramatic potential tapping into the politics of the time flirting with the idea that her position can sometimes have a striking likeness to a political officer.

When I attempted a rewatch this my thought. She could be legal aid, or diplomacy officer who advises. "The Ensigns of Command" shows that could have worked far better than her weird advice about language.

 

[Mr Awe]

And again, I'll say the characters on Discovery are ones that I know, and want to follow, Burnham, Saru in particular. Then you have secondary and tertiary characters who I also know well enough (Detmer, Owo, Rhys) to be familiar as the action unfolds. So I don't see the need to know the characters very well. Just familiar and I'll follow them.

As I've said, I do like the main characters on DIS. Saru is my favorite but others as well.

I'm glad the bridge crew work for you. Truly. They're kind of meh for me.

Being on the bridge doesn't make you special.

I'd modify that somewhat. I think you do need to be an extremely qualified officer to be assigned to the bridge. However, I guess that doesn't mean you need to have an interesting personality!