Spoilers Canon, Continuity, and Pike's Accident

[CorporalCaptain]

Well, there's something I've never though of. Was the distress signal legitimate, sent by the Talosians, or an illusion by the Talosians? It seems that the first two possibilities could only be the case at all for the first message, since it would have to have been sent out 18 years ahead of time. The second message was definitely faked, since there was no group of survivors after the crash, and it almost certainly has to be an illusion after realizing Pike didn't take the bait and needed more encouragement, since it seems unlikely the Talosians would realize Vina was half of the solution to all their problems within a few hours of the crash.

They got a follow-up message claiming there were survivors. That message was certainly false and illusory, yes, absolutely. Maybe the follow-up message was not precisely at the same range, but it came soon after and so was still many light-years, requiring a voyage at warp seven to get there before too much time had passed.

The Keeper said they had sent a fake message, in the singular, to bait them, so that would seem to indicate that the first message was legitimate. Apologies for my confusion, but I still believe they were still many light-years away from Talos IV when the illusory message came, more likely more than 18 than less than 18.

The approximate range of the faked message was indicated in the very first scene, but, yes, it's likely the first message was legitimate.

 

[Noname Given]

One of the problems of the transition from The Cage (The Menagerie as originally written) to The Menagerie two parter is that it takes the Talosians from super powerful telepaths to GODLIKE POWERFUL telepaths capable of manipulating minds over light years of space.

I actually don't mind that aspect because Star Trek shows the Federation having telepathic species who work fine and are good members; so for a telepathic species to make Starfleet Command (and the Federation) so fearful that they institute a 'no contact on pain of death' policy - even if a ship has an emergency situation) <--- The fact they can project their thoughts and illusions across light years of space sure qualifies.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Perhaps if Pike's body lives long enough they can do the Golem thing from Picard and give him a new body. It worked for Gray!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I've concocted a whole thing about the augment virus. The tl;dr version is that the Klingons found a "cure", except they did it Klingon style and it was like, brute force genetics. The "cure" went opposite... it basically made them hyper-exaggerated Klingon.

I'm liking the theory that the DSC Klingons only looked like that because that's how Burnham sees them - the monsters who killed her family.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm liking the theory that the DSC Klingons only looked like that because that's how Burnham sees them - the monsters who killed her family.

No

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, there is precedent. They changed L'Rell's makeup, didn't they? So what did she "really" look like?

 

[Mudd]

I'm liking the theory that the DSC Klingons only looked like that because that's how Burnham sees them - the monsters who killed her family.

I'm liking the theory that they changed the makeup because it wasn't working for the show, and that's why they changed it for SNW.

Oh, sorry - that's not a theory. That's what happened.

Well, there is precedent. They changed L'Rell's makeup, didn't they? So what did she "really" look like?

She's made up. She never "really" looked like anything.

 

[Tuskin38]

Well, there is precedent. They changed L'Rell's makeup, didn't they? So what did she "really" look like?

What did Saavik really look like? Or Zyial?

Also what precedent?

 

[Dukhat]

I can't wait to see the Klingons looking like blue amorphous blobs in the next iteration of Star Trek, and hearing all the canonistas and CBS apologists saying "That's what they always looked like!" or "That's Star Trek Legacy's interpretation of them which is just as valid as the swarthy human version!"

It all gets nonsensical after awhile.

 

[Tallguy]

What did Saavik really look like?

Kirstie Alley in 1982. That one was simple.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I can't wait to see the Klingons looking like blue amorphous blobs in the next iteration of Star Trek, and hearing all the canonistas and CBS apologists saying "That's what they always looked like!" or "That's Star Trek Legacy's interpretation of them which is just as valid as the swarthy human version!"

It all gets nonsensical after awhile.

Back in hyperbole mode, I see

 

[Dukhat]

Back in hyperbole mode, I see

Whatever lets you sleep at night.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, there is precedent. They changed L'Rell's makeup, didn't they? So what did she "really" look like?

Yup.

Or Klingons in the TOS movies.

Sarek?

Saavik?

Obviously changes and their impact will vary in importance from viewer to viewer.

Streaming Trek has not crossed that line for me. Mileage will vary.

 

[evilchumlee]

I'm liking the theory that the DSC Klingons only looked like that because that's how Burnham sees them - the monsters who killed her family.

But we see them looking the same when Burnham is nowhere to be found.

I'm liking the theory that they changed the makeup because it wasn't working for the show, and that's why they changed it for SNW.

Oh, sorry - that's not a theory. That's what happened.

She's made up. She never "really" looked like anything.

That's not an invalid opinion, it's just not particularly relevant to the conversation.

We're talking from the perspective of in-universe. "Watsonian", if you will. It doesn't add anything to insert the real world reason. We know that. The fun, for some of us, is working out how/why it is the way it is within the realm of the narrative.

 

[Mudd]

And there are people who find having dental work done relaxing.

 

[Tallguy]

And there are people who find having dental work done relaxing.

If the drugs are good enough.

 

[fireproof78]

Some people juggle geese.

The fun, for some of us, is working out how/why it is the way it is within the realm of the narrative.

See, here's my fun: if you hold that Discovery is in line with Prime then you have a built in excuse for Klingons.

If it's not Prime, it matters very little. If it is, you have more explanation than the Romulans, Trill, or Katarians ever got.

 

[Tallguy]

Some people juggle geese.

Some people tell funny stories with rib cages.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm liking the theory that the DSC Klingons only looked like that because that's how Burnham sees them - the monsters who killed her family.

That falls apart when you factor in the many scenes featuring Klingons where Michael was not present at all.

 

[Tuskin38]

I can't wait to see the Klingons looking like blue amorphous blobs in the next iteration of Star Trek, and hearing all the canonistas and CBS apologists saying "That's what they always looked like!" or "That's Star Trek Legacy's interpretation of them which is just as valid as the swarthy human version!"

It all gets nonsensical after awhile.

Ah yes, nice hyperbole.

I doubt anyone would defend that other than actual trolls. The Discovery Klingon change was nowhere as egregious as your example. It was no different than the change between TOS and TMP+

The Discovery Klingons were still humanoid, had ridges, sharp teeth, spoke the language had swords and still talked about Kahless and honour and still followed and added to, the lore the previous series laid out for them.