Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[Dukhat]

What I've always found humorous is that DSC season 3 went out of its way to state how all forms of travel other than standard warp drive never worked out for 800 years, and then Paramount+ makes a show about a ship with a drive that's far better and faster than warp. Not to mention that more primitive races like the Kazon even have the means to travel great galactic distances in short periods of time, presumably by means other than standard warp drive. So if both shows are supposedly meant to take place in the same continuity, then what message does that tell us?

 

[fireproof78]

Not everything works out as planned.

 

[Dukhat]

No, that's not the message.

 

[Tuskin38]

Not to mention that more primitive races like the Kazon even have the means to travel great galactic distances in short periods of time, presumably by means other than standard warp drive.

The writers have said it’s via the abandoned borg transwarp conduits

 

[Tuskin38]

So if both shows are supposedly meant to take place in the same continuity, then what message does that tell us?

The Protowarp drive still uses dilithium.

 

[fireproof78]

No, that's not the message.

That's the message I took.

You asked; I answered.

The Protowarp drive still uses dilithium.

Also this.

 

[Dukhat]

That's the message I took.

You asked; I answered.

Yes, I understand that’s the message you took. However, it is still not the correct message.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, I understand that’s the message you took. However, it is still not the correct message.

What is the correct message then?

Genuinely curious as to what message you are seeing.

 

[Dukhat]

Sometimes a hokey premise is a hokey premise.

 

[fireproof78]

Sometimes a hokey premise is a hokey premise.

Nah, that's not it.

I'd rather work with it.

 

[Dukhat]

Nah, that's not it.

I'd rather work with it.

You do what you like. I’ll stick with my answer.

 

[fireproof78]

You do what you like. I’ll stick with my answer.

Things don't work out as planned. That's a pretty good answer for me.

I never understood the dismissal of of "hokey stories." Sometimes they are just as worthwhile as any other story.

 

[Tuskin38]

Nothing released after Discovery Season 3 has contradicted The Burn's backstory yet

 

[Dukhat]

Nothing released after Discovery Season 3 has contradicted The Burn's backstory yet

Not the point. The idea that nobody could find a better alternative to standard warp drive for 800 years is a hokey premise, especially when other shows show that there are.

 

[fireproof78]

Nothing released after Discovery Season 3 has contradicted The Burn's backstory yet

I doubt that even if they did, it would end up being a nothing any way. One of the hokey ways Star Trek engages himself technological developments is to act like they didn't have the biggest impact on the larger world. It's typical technoogical development and then put in the fancy warehouse.

To me, the idea that civilizations never moved past dilithium is an all too real reflection of the constant real world promise of newer transportation that ends up fading back after promises of changing the world.

Sometimes real life is a bit hokey too.

 

[Farscape One]

I doubt that even if they did, it would end up being a nothing any way. One of the hokey ways Star Trek engages himself technological developments is to act like they didn't have the biggest impact on the larger world. It's typical technoogical development and then put in the fancy warehouse.

To me, the idea that civilizations never moved past dilithium is an all too real reflection of the constant real world promise of newer transportation that ends up fading back after promises of changing the world.

Sometimes real life is a bit hokey too.

I bolded what I am responding to.

I agree that is true in the real world that transportation advances may be stopped for a few decades. I might even buy a century.

But 800 years?! With the collective resources of the entire Federation? That's over 150 worlds (TNG/DS9/VOY era) worth of scientists and engineers. (Or 350 members, if I remember the figure correctly, at the height of the Federation according to DISCO season 3.) And no other mode of interstellar travel became more used?

No. That's just ludicrous. The sheer amount of time passed just makes this a hard pill to swallow.

 

[fireproof78]

I bolded what I am responding to.

I agree that is true in the real world that transportation advances may be stopped for a few decades. I might even buy a century.

But 800 years?! With the collective resources of the entire Federation? That's over 150 worlds (TNG/DS9/VOY era) worth of scientists and engineers. (Or 350 members, if I remember the figure correctly, at the height of the Federation according to DISCO season 3.) And no other mode of interstellar travel became more used?

No. That's just ludicrous. The sheer amount of time passed just makes this a hard pill to swallow.

Fair enough.

I don't. It fits what's been presented time and again. Mileage, etc.

 

[Dukhat]

Fair enough.

I don't. It fits what's been presented time and again. Mileage, etc.

The operative words here are ‘time and again.’ So what if it’s what’s happened time and again? Does that mean that Star Trek can never strive to ever surpass that low bar, and shouldn’t bother to try? I’m not interested in watching a mediocre show because nobody wants to make something better. I’ve already lost interest in most of what P+ is making, and what’s supposedly coming down the line is of little interest to me either.

 

[fireproof78]

The operative words here are ‘time and again.’ So what if it’s what’s happened time and again? Does that mean that Star Trek can never strive to ever surpass that low bar, and shouldn’t bother to try? I’m not interested in watching a mediocre show because nobody wants to make something better. I’ve already lost interest in most of what P+ is making, and what’s supposedly coming down the line is of little interest to me either.

I think it depends on what the show is trying to do. Do I wish that it potentially could surpass that supposed low bar? Of course. Growth is always ideal.

But, will I reject it out of hand, find it uninteresting or undesirable to watch because it does what Trek has done in the past? No. I find it hard to call it "hokey" when Trek has done the exact same thing in the past and accepted as is.

If you've lost interested then naturally I would encourage you to find a show that rises to the heights. For me, I don't have the time to seek this all out, so I stick with familiar, because real life is too interesting for me to bother wanting that in my entertainment too.

 

[Dukhat]

I think it depends on what the show is trying to do. Do I wish that it potentially could surpass that supposed low bar? Of course. Growth is always ideal.

But, will I reject it out of hand, find it uninteresting or undesirable to watch because it does what Trek has done in the past? No. I find it hard to call it "hokey" when Trek has done the exact same thing in the past and accepted as is.

If you've lost interested then naturally I would encourage you to find a show that rises to the heights. For me, I don't have the time to seek this all out, so I stick with familiar, because real life is too interesting for me to bother wanting that in my entertainment too.

I'm not trying to change your opinion. You can watch whatever you want; I don't care. I'm saying that the idea that nobody could find a viable alternative to standard warp drive with dilithium for 800 years is pretty laughable. Just a minor bit of editing of that premise could have made things make more sense. Like in that episode of TNG where they determined that warp drive use was adversely affecting that area of space. They could have branched off of that premise by saying that over an 800 year span of time, space has been so negatively affected that space travel was now nigh impossible by any means, and then here comes the Discovery out of nowhere with a new drive that is safe, and now it's time to rebuild the Federation. But instead they came up with some hokey plot about ships exploding because a child threw a tantrum.