Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[Tuskin38]

I wanted it to be omega particles or something.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not trying to change your opinion. You can watch whatever you want; I don't care. I'm saying that the idea that nobody could find a viable alternative to standard warp drive with dilithium for 800 years is pretty laughable. Just a minor bit of editing of that premise could have made things make more sense. Like in that episode of TNG where they determined that warp drive use was adversely affecting that area of space. They could have branched off of that premise by saying that over an 800 year span of time, space has been so negatively affected that space travel was now nigh impossible by any means, and then here comes the Discovery out of nowhere with a new drive that is safe, and now it's time to rebuild the Federation. But instead they came up with some hokey plot about ships exploding because a child threw a tantrum.

I'd take that over the standard technobable and actually feeling a measure of sympathy for a character going through grief.

Hokey? Maybe. Entertaining? Damn straight. Laughable? Hell no.

Of course there are alternatives. WE have the maximum amount of freedom to arm chair quarterback the whole season and determine that our way is right. We are not under the constraints of a production deadline, nor do we have the directives from our bosses.

I enjoy the debate but we have max freedom to rewrite this and deride it and it's strange.

 

[Dukhat]

Hokey? Maybe. Entertaining? Damn straight. Laughable? Hell no.

Thank you for your opinion. Now go watch hokey TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

Thank you for your opinion. Now go watch hokey TOS.

TAS: "How Sharper than a Serpent's Tooth" is on my list tonight.

Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[Dukhat]

I have not seen any of TAS other than 'The Slaver Weapon.' I should really watch the rest of it to get my hokey creds in.

 

[Kraig]

I'm not trying to change your opinion. You can watch whatever you want; I don't care. I'm saying that the idea that nobody could find a viable alternative to standard warp drive with dilithium for 800 years is pretty laughable. Just a minor bit of editing of that premise could have made things make more sense. Like in that episode of TNG where they determined that warp drive use was adversely affecting that area of space. They could have branched off of that premise by saying that over an 800 year span of time, space has been so negatively affected that space travel was now nigh impossible by any means, and then here comes the Discovery out of nowhere with a new drive that is safe, and now it's time to rebuild the Federation. But instead they came up with some hokey plot about ships exploding because a child threw a tantrum.

Wasn't the timeline much less than 800 years?
The timeline and gist of what I got from watching the season 3 Discovery:
Mid 31st century (~3050) The Federation started looking for alternatives to dilithium because supplies were drying up.
3064 the Federation dispatched a ship to investigate a dilithium nursery.
3069 the burn happens.
3188 (119 years after the burn) Burnham arrives in the 32 century (followed by USS Discovery at a later date).

The Federation loses most of their ships due the burn and collapses to a shadow of itself within 20-30 years after the burn and when they were looking for an alternative to dilithium. Member worlds trying to find alternatives in warp drive technology for the Federation, cease to be member worlds with the Federation collapse. Others have developed quantum slipstream, or use of dilithium recrystallizers, but without Federation help. The Federation, not knowing the cause of the burn, was afraid to try to expand and experiment on new technologies, because the burn might happen again, and a lack of available resources.

 

[Sci]

The claim that DIS established that alternatives to warp travel were never developed is false. We have routinely seen species from parts of the galaxy that would have been inaccessible to conventional warp travel in DIS S3 and S4. Faster alternatives to warp were clearly in use by the time of the Burn.

What DIS did establish was that no superior alternative to the usage of dilithium crystals was ever developed. Even technologies like quantrum slipstream, transwarp, and quantum singularity drives made use of dilithium, and therefore were affected by the Burn. There is nothing implausible or inconsistent with canon about this.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Doctor's backup program was running and operational in the Kyrian museum facility in the year 3074 as we see in "Living Witness(VOY)" so if true then the Burn hadn't yet happened, but as with many things Trek that aren't given exact calendar dates and/or Earth year numbers we can extrapolate that the VOY episode happens right before the Burn and the EMH backup program departs the Kyrians aboard his shuttle prior to Su'Kal's subspace scream destabilizing the galaxy's dilithium.

 

[Sci]

The Doctor's backup program was running and operational in the Kyrian museum facility in the year 3074 as we see in "Living Witness(VOY)" so if true then the Burn hadn't yet happened, but as with many things Trek that aren't given exact calendar dates and/or Earth year numbers we can extrapolate that the VOY episode happens right before the Burn and the EMH backup program departs the Kyrians aboard his shuttle prior to Su'Kal's subspace scream destabilizing the galaxy's dilithium.

Which of course means that, should the producers ever wish to do it, there's an opportunity to do an episode about the Backup EMH finally arriving at the Federation after being delayed by a hundred or so years due to the consequences of the Burn. Robert Picardo might be up for it.

 

[fireproof78]

What DIS did establish was that no superior alternative to the usage of dilithium crystals was ever developed. Even technologies like quantrum slipstream, transwarp, and quantum singularity drives made use of dilithium, and therefore were affected by the Burn. There is nothing implausible or inconsistent with canon about this.

Exactly.

And, again, reminiscent of real life. So I'm all in for it.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

I thought this was the Strange New Worlds forum. How ‘bout it y’all?

 

[Macintosh]

I thought this was the Strange New Worlds forum. How ‘bout it y’all?

It's a continuum

 

[Martok91189]

I dunno, this stuff with the Gorn may be the biggest violation of all of TOS canon. They've introduced them years early, retconned their appearance, and their space has even been charted well enough to show up on ship's charts. There is no way Kirk isn't aware of these guys now!

Just like we didn't need Jess Bush to be Chapel or Babs to be M'Benga, we didn't need these xenomorph wannabes to be the Gorn. Why not just name them something different?

Oh well, gotta go with it now. [Drill Instructor Knife Hand] Hit it! [/D.I.K.H.]

Time traveling Romulan, baby. TTR.

No the Klingons are worse. In Pike's era Klingons are supposed to appear human.

 

[fireproof78]

Species have variety.

All Klingons look human? Ridiculous.

All Gorn looking like one specific type? Excessively ridiculous.

 

[Tuskin38]

In Pike's era Klingons are supposed to appear human.

nope

Not every Klingon was infected by the augment virus, it was just a few colonies.

 

[Martok91189]

nope

Not every Klingon was infected by the augment virus, it was just a few colonies.

Apparently both SNW and Discovery take place in the Neroverse in some way.

 

[fireproof78]

Apparently both SNW and Discovery take place in the Neroverse in some way.

Nope.

They take the Roddenberry approach.

Or, the augment virus impacts Klingons different ways.

Inbreeding.

Genetic engineering to correct the virus.

Different phenotypes of Klingons represented in an interstellar empire.

 

[Tuskin38]

Apparently both SNW and Discovery take place in the Neroverse in some way.

Nope, they're in the Prime Universe without a couple dates smudged. But TNG did the same thing.
If they were in that timeline, Vulcan would be destroyed, Pike would be dead, Kirk would be captain and the Enterprise would look completely different.

Also it's called the Kelvin Timeline, not Neroverse.

 

[HotRod]

Apparently both SNW and Discovery take place in the Neroverse in some way.

No.

 

[cooleddie74]

Apparently both SNW and Discovery take place in the Neroverse in some way.

No.

Not even close.