Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x10 - "Hegemony"

[fireproof78]

The Gorn suck.

Can't believe I ever liked them in Arena. But revisiting it now, watching SNW do some weird thing. They just suck.

No, it's not another timeline (fuck that noise). It just reinforces to me how much the Gorn just suck.

 

[Amaris]

The Gorn aren't completely clicking with me either. They're just coming across too much as monsters and not a "just another alien race we don't get along wirh." I mean, if they have FTL ships they have to have a society and structure, right?

Instead they're just monsters.

Monsters to us, but not to them. I would imagine that cows feel the same way about us as we would the Gorn.

 

[cooleddie74]

From what I once read we almost got a Gorn guest at Riker and Troi's wedding reception in NEM. It makes me wonder how a 2002 movie would have done a live-action Gorn. In 2005 ENT opted for an all-CGI Mirror Universe Gorn with mixed results and on a fraction of the previous Trek movie's budget.

 

[Trekker4747]

Monsters to us, but not to them. I would imagine that cows feel the same way about us as we would the Gorn.

The Gorn are literally being portrayed as growling, hissing, monsters with wild, quick, reactionary movements and not behaving like an intelligent species that figured out how to travel faster than light.

 

[fireproof78]

Perhaps these Gorn rode the short Gorn bus.

Or are otherwise untrained beyond the basics. If you grabbed a frontline soldier you might not believe humans could do space flight either.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

As I've stated before elsewhere, I adore the Gorn from "Arena".

The new batch, not at all. They just have no personality for the actors to work off of.

 

[Amaris]

The Gorn are literally being portrayed as growling, hissing, monsters with wild, quick, reactionary movements and not behaving like an intelligent species that figured out how to travel faster than light.

From our point of view. They may see us like cattle, who behave with slow mannerisms and slow thinking. Biology doesn't necessarily indicate intelligence. Bees don't behave like humans and yet they are highly intelligent, creating their own structures. Just because the Gorn don't appear to be like primates doesn't mean they don't possess the ability to build or create.

 

[Admiral Archer]

My actual reaction to the end of this episode: NOOO!!! They can't DO THIS to ME!!!

Now I know what "Mr. Worf, FIRE." must have been like some 30 odd years ago. Only instead of over the summer, this time we might have to wait over a YEAR to see what happens.

 

[cooleddie74]

The MU Gorn from Season 4 of ENT was...mostly okay? I guess? The 2005 TV CGI wasn't exactly bulletproof but there are a few moments in the fight with Mirror Archer where that Gorn (named Sklar) seems like a genuine threat.

 

[ToddCam]

We've only seen one adult Gorn so far in SNW, and while violent, it was clearly trying to use a computer terminal. Not behavior I would think of as like a monster.

I recently was having a discussion about why I don't eat octopuses. They are too intelligent, and I cannot have on my conscience knowingly eating a potentially sapient being when having any other choice. I have sometimes wondered if it's right for me to consume anything that once lived to sustain my own existence, but I am not suicidal, and since I can't photosynthesize, I am forced to. But anything sapient that I eat would see me as a monster like we see the Gorn. It doesn't mean we "prey" shouldn't fight back, but it's a matter of perspective.

 

[Mr Awe]

The Gorn aren't completely clicking with me either. They're just coming across too much as monsters and not a "just another alien race we don't get along wirh."
Instead they're just monsters.

I'm leaning towards incompatible biology rather than monsters. There were hints towards that end. Their natural life cycle includes laying eggs in other creatures and letting their young hunt like wild animals. It works for them and it's just how they survive, like how we eat plants and meat.

Those incompatibles can be managed if not resolved completely. We know that they must have some sort of intelligence. Perhaps more in the older Gorn.

 

[ToddCam]

The Gorn seem to be obligate carnivores, and their young are clearly not helpless for long while behaving much more feral than we would expect from sapients. If human infants and toddlers were that functional at their ages, we would be quite frightening.

 

[Korusan]

I still think there are many more layers to peel back of these Gorn. I like the slow drip of information, like their relationship with light. I also am not convinced they've completely thrown out the old depiction of them -- I know they don't especially care about changing things from TOS if it means they can tell a different story, but if they're making such a huge fundamental change why give them the old look and behavior in Lower Decks? Not to mention the skeleton from Discovery, which I recently learned was placed as a clue that Lorca wasn't who he said he was (because they hadn't met the Gorn yet).

I know they changed the Ferengi in Discovery and went back to the better way of them looking in Picard S3, but it was so far in the future that Ferengi might not have even been full-blooded. And, at the end of the day, they'll change things on a whim if they think they can do something better with a concept. That said, I don't think we can preclude the slower, more contemplative version of the species from showing up just yet. Guess we'll find out in two years.

 

[Amaris]

I still think there are many more layers to peel back of these Gorn. I like the slow drip of information, like their relationship with light. I also am not convinced they've completely thrown out the old depiction of them -- I know they don't especially care about changing things from TOS if it means they can tell a different story, but if they're making such a huge fundamental change why give them the old look and behavior in Lower Decks? Not to mention the skeleton from Discovery, which I recently learned was placed as a clue that Lorca wasn't who he said he was (because they hadn't met the Gorn yet).

I know they changed the Ferengi in Discovery and went back to the better way of them looking in Picard S3, but it was so far in the future that Ferengi might not have even been full-blooded. And, at the end of the day, they'll change things on a whim if they think they can do something better with a concept. That said, I don't think we can preclude the slower, more contemplative version of the species from showing up just yet. Guess we'll find out in two years.

I'm still thinking caste system. Then again, you could have the older, slower "thinkers," and as you get younger, you get to the point where it's more instinct than sapience.

 

[Mr Awe]

The Gorn suck.

Can't believe I ever liked them in Arena. But revisiting it now, watching SNW do some weird thing. They just suck.

No, it's not another timeline (fuck that noise). It just reinforces to me how much the Gorn just suck.

I actually find them as potentially fascinating. Potentially because I have to see where they're taking them.

ST has had plenty of examples of wars based on cultural differences like we have on Earth. The Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, etc. They're not biological differences driving the conflict. Just different goals, cultures, resource issues, etc. All the stuff we're familiar with here on Earth.

The Gorn just seem to have a completely different life cycle than humans and the other species I mentioned. The Gorn are not really so different biologically than some Earth creatures other than they're also intelligent. But if your survival involves laying eggs in other creatures and your young eating them in a mindless fashion, it's going to be hard to get along with your neighbors even if you don't have any other reason to go to war. The biology is driving the conflict. And both sides will feel justified in what they do for their own survival.

I've had similar thoughts when my daughter had pet mice. They were so cute. Had their own little community and distinct personalities. We absolutely loved them!

However, others buy mice to feed live to their snakes. Initially, that felt repugnant given how much we loved our mice! But of course snakes have just as much right to live as the mice. Objectively, neither is wrong.

The Gorn and Humans are like snakes and mice, respectively.

We'll see where they go with them. But I find some of the potential avenues to be interesting.

 

[Amaris]

I actually find them as potentially fascinating. Potentially because I have to see where they're taking them.

ST has had plenty of examples of wars based on cultural differences like we have on Earth. The Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, etc. They're not biological differences driving the conflict. Just different goals, cultures, resource issues, etc. All the stuff we're familiar with here on Earth.

The Gorn just seem to have a completely different life cycle than humans and the other species I mentioned. The Gorn are not really so different biologically than some Earth creatures other than they're also intelligent. But if your survival involves laying eggs in other creatures and your young eating them in a mindless fashion, it's going to be hard to get along with your neighbors even if you don't have any other reason to go to war. The biology is driving the conflict. And both sides will feel justified in what they do for their own survival.

I've had similar thoughts when my daughter had pet mice. They were so cute. Had their own little community and distinct personalities. We absolutely loved them!

However, others buy mice to feed live to their snakes. Initially, that felt repugnant given how much we loved our mice! But of course snakes have just as much right to live as the mice. Objectively, neither is wrong.

The Gorn and Humans are like snakes and mice, respectively.

We'll see where they go with them. But I find some of the potential avenues to be interesting.

That's why I'm always prepared.

 

[Mr Awe]

That's why I'm always prepared.

That's awesome! Literally laughing out loud!

 

[cooleddie74]

Stay rat strapped or get clapped.

 

[DaveyNY]

A good episode.

But...when Spock was placing the thrusters on the Cayuga..why did he place one INSIDE?

So the Gorn didn't see it?
Perhaps that one was just to make the saucer appear to spin naturally while it decended.

 

[Kzinti]

why give them the old look and behavior in Lower Decks?

because lower deck is about the familiar and pretty much nothing else also it's made by another team which isn't beholden to the design choice of other trek production anyway i'm glad SNW didn't use that terrible rubber suit design