Revenge and Retribution are brothers but there's a difference between killing a man because he wronged you personally and killing a man because he got away with war crimes.
Jack Ruby is not someone who killed Oswald for revenge.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Revenge and Retribution are brothers but there's a difference between killing a man because he wronged you personally and killing a man because he got away with war crimes.
Jack Ruby is not someone who killed Oswald for revenge.
Tawny Newsome (who will be a writer on the Academy series) has also spoken of her love of DS9, but otherwise, yeah that seems to be it.
Solid episode. I love how SNW effortlessly manages these tonal shifts; the lighter baseline gives these episodes a bigger punch.
That said I did finish the episode slightly confuzzled, but I think that's down to the incredibly dumbass choice to watch it in chunks across 3 days.
That said I did finish the episode slightly confuzzled, but I think that's down to the incredibly dumbass choice to watch it in chunks across 3 days.
SNW: Morally ambiguous episode with night time battle on the front.
DS9: Morally ambiguous episode with night time battle on the front.
Firelfy: Morally ambiguous episode with night time battle on the front.
Seriously. Other than "Oh, they're doing war. DS9 did war" the battle scenes reminded me far more of the pilot to Firefly. I was waiting for M'Benga to tell the kid that they were too pretty for God to let them die.
DS9: Morally ambiguous episode with night time battle on the front.
Firelfy: Morally ambiguous episode with night time battle on the front.
Seriously. Other than "Oh, they're doing war. DS9 did war" the battle scenes reminded me far more of the pilot to Firefly. I was waiting for M'Benga to tell the kid that they were too pretty for God to let them die.
I mean, the similarities are surface level, at best.
The characters driving the stories are far different.
The characters driving the stories are far different.
Wait. What?! Nah. Star Trek never does that.Yep. I'm sure they'll be some wacky technobabble explanation. Maybe god-like aliens auditioning humanity?
It reminded a lot of people of M*A*S*H, for obvious reasons. Some parts are reminiscent of Band of Brothers. And about a thousand other war films. The DS9 episodes are, in fact, not particularly good examples of these kinds of stories. They were mostly very stagey, derivative and relatively superficial treatments of the subject matter. They were only remarkable when compared to previous Star Trek.
Some fans seem to think that if a thing reminds them of another thing they've seen, it's probably copied from that thing they saw first.
And SNW took it to another level, I commend the production, writing staff, & actors for all elevating the War Drama episode.
They did a GREAT Job IMO.
In terms of reminding one of Firefly - there are some Book/M'Benga similarities, now, aren't there?
And not for a moment do I think that anyone gave Firefly a moment's thought in creating or developing M'Benga.
Remember, there are really no new stories. Now humans just take an old story or trope, file the serial numbers off, and paint over it. Sometimes it's well done, sometimes not.
Dak'Rah kept egging M'Benga after he told Dak'Rah multiple times to back off and leave. He got into his personal space, and given how he knew what M'Benga did, it is quite believable that Dak'Rah was going to kill him... and considering the fight we saw earlier, he could do it without much difficulty since M'Benga wasn't juiced up at that time.
And even if it wasn't self-defense, M'Benga told him multiple times to leave. He instead pushed further and got in M'Benga's personal space, and considering Dak'Rah has proven he can kill him fairly easily (based on the fight earlier), every scenario puts M'Benga in the clear. Dak'Rah was a liar, a mass murderer, and a coward. Who knows how many other people he massacred in addition to that moon. He ordered civilians... children, to be killed. Dak'Rah had it coming.
Frankly, M'Benga gave him more warnings and was far more lenient with him than I would have been. I would have warned him only once and then stabbed that child murdering douchebag.
And this wasn't revenge. It was justice. He should never have been made an ambassador for the Federation. He should have been executed... or at the very least, serve a lifetime prison sentence.
See the Harry Potter fan who thought Tolkien ripped off Rowling.
If anything, “Under The Cloak of War” is in the spirit of the best kind of war stories they had on Deep Space Nine, continuing a good Trek tradition. But nothing beyond that and certainly not copying anything, that's just silly.
As someone said earlier, at this point it's become virtually impossible to do any kind of Trek story that's not going to remind you of some previous entry.
As someone said earlier, at this point it's become virtually impossible to do any kind of Trek story that's not going to remind you of some previous entry.
If it is too over the top, I can mute the volume and turn on closed captioning.That's exactly what I want to see. I love musical theater.
It's actually a little more novel than that, for Star Trek. There's a clip up. Basically, they make an "oops!" with a research project of their own.
Ordinarily, this sort of mistake requires a famous Federation scientist to come aboard and fuck things up.
Aargh. Right! Senior moment!
I guess the "Enterprise sitting out the war" solved some story point or another for them at the time, and no one thought it would be something that would have to be revisited.
After this week, I'm more curious about what Kirk's service consisted of during the war. This whole story thread recontextualizes parts of TOS, as others here have pointed out - the militancy in Starfleet and the attitudes toward the Klingons, especially at their introduction, can be interpreted as hangovers from the Klingon War.
A war just ten years in the past when the Organian crisis arises. Think about how jittery a Central or Western European power would have been in 1928 or 1929 had Weimar Germany suddenly began sending troops into areas of a sensitve nature but multiply that due to the advanced 23rd century weaponry on both sides.
Well, you cannot see what happens through the glass. So you are making a non-evidentiary leap to call it murder.
As I said earlier, I think an equally plausible explanation is the Klingon fears M'benga will expose his lies and decides to try & kill him & they struggle & M'benga wins.
Or a fight starts and gets out of control.
If M'benga was gonna kill him in cold blood, premeditation & all, why does he ask him to leave? Wouldn't baiting him closer and then a quick stab make more sense?
I do think that of what we see from the Klingon in the episode, believing he started it is a stretch. But given his history, maybe not.
Exactly. It was one Gorn who the Metrons chose. And seemingly the Metrons wanted both Captains to find, so it wasn't even a random selection from either ship. Basically, a non-representative selection wouldn't be surprising. The captain is likely to be older than the typical crewmember.
