Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"

[guyute03]

My favorite SNW episode so far. Adored this. 9.

 

[SG-17]

VOY's Future's End I & II
DS9's Trials And Tribbleations & Past Tense I & II
Star Trek: First Contact
ENT: Regeneration
PIC S2 (All 10 episodes)

...would disagree

None of them were in-universe confirmations. We've only had retcons and word of god "records were fragmented" stuff.

 

[DaveyNY]

Not to mention Space Seed established that Khan ruled during the 90s. This was a major retcon.

Not really a major one since the time period involved had already been called into question by other Trek shows.

Besides, the Romulan herself said that their tampering had already altered things.
So not a "retcon", simply an addition to the already known history we thought we knew.

Like Spock having siblings.

 

[Noname Given]

None of them were in-universe confirmations. We've only had retcons and word of god "records were fragmented" stuff.

Did you see a bombed out Earth in the 1996 VOY episode Future's End? I didn't. And per TOS Khan ruled 1/4 of the planet. The other 3/4's were ruled by other Augments and they all fought among themselves and per Spock "Bombed whole populations out of existence."

There was NO CHANCE that somehow teh U.S. was 'sitting it out' and not involved as IT had been conquered and ruled by an Augment as well in the period 1992 -1996 in the Prime TOS timeline.

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

9.5/10
love La'an kirk was good and they are using the Temporal Wars for retcons?

 

[Kelso]

The Eugenics Wars were originally described as the last of the World Wars and involved selective breeding. 20th/21st century Star Trek canon has been inconsistent and contradictory since TOS.

I dig that we now know why.

 

[Paul Weaver]

The whole explanation about pushing back technology and events in this period of history was inspired. Very happy with that.

was Daniels or Braxton ever put as DTI members? Obviously the novels have a whole universe around them, but that was all splintery. did we see any DTI agents aside from dulmer and lucsly?

 

[DaveyNY]

The Eugenics Wars were originally described as the last of the World Wars and involved selective breeding. 20th/21st century Star Trek canon has been inconsistent and contradictory since TOS.

I dig that we now know why.

Heh ... Damn Aliens!

 

[cooleddie74]

"Sounds like the conflicts' classification turned woke."

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

Btw while I liked the episode - I still had to laugh out loud when they had that sign with "right: fusion reactor, left: DNA meddling". Hollywood science right there.

Also: That child-room sign written "KHAN" was still 1000x less ridiculous than Spock ugly-cry-screaming that name in "Into Darkness".

Shame that new viewers will miss large parts of backstory/world building. Guess not many casuals will know the backstory from a 1982's movie villain.

It did come out 41 years ago,

 

[SG-17]

Did you see a bombed out Earth in the 1996 VOY episode Future's End? I didn't. And per TOS Khan ruled 1/4 of the planet. The other 3/4's were ruled by other Augments and they all fought among themselves and per Spock "Bombed whole populations out of existence."

There was NO CHANCE that somehow teh U.S. was 'sitting it out' and not involved as IT had been conquered and ruled by an Augment as well in the period 1992 -1996 in the Prime TOS timeline.

All we know for sure is that Khan ruled a quarter of the planet (which doesn't necessarily imply it's landmass, it could also refer to population. If he controlled India and China that's about a quarter of the Earth's population) and that Augments controlled about 40 nations.

Nothing about them controlling the entire world let alone the US.

 

[ichab]

I could only give this one a 6. Laan really carried this episode and her performance is the only reason I didn't give this one a lower grade. Most of the episode was pedestrian. I still don't buy Wesley as Kirk and having him for the majority of the episode just brings it down for me. And once again we have creatives using the Khan character without bothering with established canon. No amount of time circles is going to let turning Khan into a child decades after his rule as an adult make any sense. If they wanted to tell the old "baby hitler" story, then just set the time jump to the 1960s.

So far this season, IMO, we've had two very mediocre episodes and one superb one. I hope the batting average improves.

 

[gweeps]

Not to mention Space Seed established that Khan ruled during the 90s. This was a major retcon.

I just blame it on all the timey wimey shenanigans since then.

 

[cooleddie74]

Steve Shives has a great take on the discrepancy between the Los Angeles seen in 1996 in VOY and the rest of the world during the supposed timeframe of the conflict. Go to 7:05 in the video.

World War II killed 80 million people and left huge swaths of Europe, North Africa and East Asia in ruins yet the U.S. looked largely unscathed between 1939 and 1945. No signs of a World War on our soil if you lived in 1940s America.

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[DaveyNY]

No amount of time circles is going to let turning Khan into a child decades after his greatest triumph as an adult make any sense. If they wanted to tell the old "baby hitler" story, then just set the time jump to the 1960s.

This completely ignores the fact that several previous Trek shows have put that entire premise into question.
You want to condemn the SNW writers when in actuality it was the Berman Era that did it and SNW is just following up on that.

 

[Mike Doyle]

My take on if they pushed the eugenics wars back.

Prime Timeline: They happen in 1990s.

Alternate Timeline 1 created by a Romulan agent destroying something that sets back development of Project Khan while trying to slow down humanity. This is where the past section of the episode takes place.

Alternate Timeline 2 is created by Khan being killed in Alternate Timeline 1. Humanity is crippled, the federation never forms and importantly the DTI is never formed. There is only one DTI agent left who we see at the beginning protected from the changes.

DTI agent makes a desperate move for La’an to go back in time and stop Timeline 2 happening. This makes things slightly better, still significant change to the timeline BUT the DTI is formed and able to go back and change the original divergence and back to the Prime Timeline.

 

[Macintosh]

Comfortably the most interesting episode of the season so far, even if it retreads ground from several previous Star Trek episodes. Paul Wesley was much less annoying here than he was in "A Quality of Mercy", but he still feels nothing like Kirk to me.

 

[gweeps]

I think Alt.Kirk was just happy to have the burden of command lifted from his shoulders.

La'an felt like a sub in for Spock at times.

 

[jackoverfull]

while you do not feed Fido a milligram of the same stuff because it kills them

And people are OK with this? They've basically said that TOS never happened and thus it doesn't count anymore. I'd have thought there'd be a tad more vitriol.

The problem is that there is no clear "cutoff" divergence point on which Trek works exactly take place in the 1990s Eugenics War timeline and which Trek works take place in the 21st century Eugenics War Timeline. Fans are going to go crazy trying to figure that one out.

its nuanced: according to this episode (but also the Abrams movies) the timeline gradually repairs itself, so the divergence point is in the late 90s, but the two timelines gradually become more and more similar after a while. The TOS we saw as it was was clearly the one with WW3 in the 90s, but most of it happens virtually unchanged in the new timeline as well. By the time of TNG, one century later, the changes are even less and it would be really difficult to find the differences between the two timelines.
This by the way also explains the early TNG uniform in the Kelvin timeline, as seen in discovery season 3.

 

[DaveyNY]

This episode shows that Khan is one of those FIxed Points in Time that can be slightly altered, but never eliminated.