Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x02 - "Ad Astra Per Aspera"

[Divinity Davey]

I got the impression that the Vulcan was the Star Fleet JAG.
(just letting Capt. Batel be the lead lawyer at first)
Which is why he stepped in at the end.

 

[eschaton]

But some of that is random chance. If a parent forces personal characteristics onto their child, how is that arguably any different than a parent in the here and now that might force a gender onto a child or a sexual orientation?

Because forced gender/orientation conversion doesn't work, but this presumably would.

I mean, consider being a parent like 50 years from now. You are told that your child will be trans. What would you do? You could go through things the old-fashioned way, or they could have therapy as a blastocyst so they were born with a body that aligned with their mental gender. I think most parents would opt for this because it would save their children a lot of mental anguish during childhood and adolescence.

I think Deep Space Nine presents the flip-side of this episode, where Bashir's treatment by his parents leaves him resentful of a father and mother who didn't accept him for he was.

Right, but Bashir's scenario had the therapy take place in early childhood after he had already started schooling. He had memories of the time before and memories of the therapy. I don't think the same would be true for someone who was "fixed" while still a blastocyst.

 

[SantaEddie74]

True, the idea that Khan and company were genetically-engineered dates back to THE WRATH OF KHAN, not "Space Seed."

It was what we would now call a retcon, which worked because the dialogue in "Space Seed" is vague enough to allow for that interpretation.

Yep. "Selective breeding" and "controlled genetics" can easily mix into the terminology with genetic engineering and DNA resequencing. Especially since some people who believe in eugenics equate laboratory experimentation with "breeding" a new kind of human being.

 

[firehawk12]

I gather that Una’s modifications are not heritable or at least not all of them are. All of the Illyrians in this episode appear human, unlike the Illyrians with ridges in the Enterprise episode. Presumably the human appearance and internal makeup IS heritable. Una passes as human on all scans and is compatible enough to receive a blood transfusion from the human Dr. M’Benga. La’an inherited augmented DNA from one or two ancestors several generations in the past. She is not herself an augment.

Una says something along the lines of there being Illyrians that can hide their modifications and those who can't. I wondered whether that was a nod to the Illyrians on Enterprise having a different appearance that might be explained by modifications?

Another thing I noticed is that the Federation ban is worded to outlaw "permanent" modifications. So, presumably, if the modifications are temporary, that might fly under Federation law.

I guess it's never clear what a non-passing Illyrian is like. Presumably Neera would fail some kind of tricorder scan? Because it's implied she doesn't pass since her family and Una's family went their separate ways because Una's family could 'pass'.

It's also odd that they'd allow Neera to represent her in the first place, considering the Federation presumably sees her very existence as illegal.

 

[Tuskin38]

It's also odd that they'd allow Neera to represent her in the first place, considering the Federation presumably sees her very existence as illegal.

Illyrians are allowed in the Federation, as long as they stop performing genetic alterations. This was explained with Una's colony.

 

[firehawk12]

Also, I didn't think about it until now, but one unintended side effect of the twist at the end of Una being the one to turn herself in is that she basically put her crew and Pike in danger of her own volition.
Presumably she didn't have the asylum defense in mind and you could argue that she knew Pike would be fine in this instance since she knows he ends up in the chair eventually, but it's a bit odd. lol

 

[Yistaan]

It's also odd that they'd allow Neera to represent her in the first place, considering the Federation presumably sees her very existence as illegal.

Una and Neera's feud-- Neera could never understand why Una didn't become a lawyer like her, which apparently is legally allowed for augments, and joined up with the one organization that didn't allow augments.

Personally if I needed a lawyer I'd want one with genetically enhanced intelligence.

Also, I didn't think about it until now, but one unintended side effect of the twist at the end of Una being the one to turn herself in is that she basically put her crew and Pike in danger of her own volition.
Presumably she didn't have the asylum defense in mind and you could argue that she knew Pike would be fine in this instance since she knows he ends up in the chair eventually, but it's a bit odd. lol

James Kirk: I'm laughing at the 'superior intellect'.

Number One slaps Kirk

Speaking of the Kirks, Sam Kirk hasn't been seen so far this season. Is he going to greet his brother next week?

 

[firehawk12]

Illyrians are allowed in the Federation, as long as they stop performing genetic alterations. This was explained with Una's colony.

So are they allowed to keep existing modifications? At what point does it stop? With Neera's generation? A certain stardate?

 

[Tuskin38]

So are they allowed to keep existing modifications? At what point does it stop? With Neera's generation? A certain stardate?

From the dialogue the only request from the Federation was to stop doing modifications.

 

[JedGelt67]

There were TNG episodes (such as the Masterpiece Society) that showed genetic engineering widely used by isolated colonies without tremendous stigma as well. It's really just the decision to make Bashir into an augment that all of this flowed from

IIRC, The Masterpiece was a human colony but not a Federation member.

Yep. "Selective breeding" and "controlled genetics" can easily mix into the terminology with genetic engineering and DNA resequencing.

But that pecan pie was delicious!

So are they allowed to keep existing modifications? At what point does it stop? With Neera's generation? A certain stardate?

The Ilyruian world was not a Federation member either. I would assume that Neera and her kin - GMO Ilyrians - can visit the Federation but cannot become members due to being genetically engineered. It was stated in the episode that the genetic engineering was done gestationally, so the augmentation is not "naturally inherited"

 

[gvn2fly]

I thought this was a good episode, but I just found it hard to reconcile the federation allowing one of their worlds to put children in jail for something that was done to them by their parents.

 

[gvn2fly]

can a military organization grant asylum?

This one can, as stated in the episode. And the tribunal decided to drop all charges against her so that's how she can keep her rank. Sure, they could have kept the lying charge and removed her from Starfleet, similar to the plea offer, but they didn't. It was the tribunal's choice to make and they made it.

 

[gvn2fly]

So I couldn't decide whether to go for an 8 or 9 for this and settled on an 8. Really engaging episode. I'm really happy this show is back. I love this cast!

 

[drt]

Yes, and a real shame that a show made in the nineties committed to the most preposterous, backward addition to the mythology.

It's interesting that other near-future and far-future scifi of note also have genetically engineered humans as a matter of course. In Foundation, they serve only on spacecraft for example. Trek kind of missed the boat

There were TNG episodes (such as the Masterpiece Society) that showed genetic engineering widely used by isolated colonies without tremendous stigma as well. It's really just the decision to make Bashir into an augment that all of this flowed from.

I’ve always had the thought that in the 90s, as the potential of genetic engineering started to become more known among the general audience, the Trek production started to realize that it had missed the boat with regard to its futurism in that regard, as in 250+ years it’s highly likely that genetic engineering will be more widespread and everyone will be augmented in some fashion. Fortunately for the Trek writers, the presence of Khan and the Eugenics Wars in Trek’s history gave them a convenient out to say “genetic engineering is bad and illegal, m’kay.”

 

[Captain Jollydark]

Then please tell me what exactly they prove in the episode. That he was a sentient being? No one really doubt it. Only Maddox, and he was virtually the only one in the Galaxy, and really, it wasn't even the point in the hearing. That he has certain rights as Federation Citizen? It was already decided by a panel of expert for his admission at the Academy.

This is what happened:

• The Jag says that Data is a property of Federation because Acts of Cumberland apply here
• Then she say that Acts of Cumberland don't apply here, and she doesn't explain why

No new facts came up during the hearing, absolutely nothing was proven. No one disputed that Data was artificial and intelligent, and the Acts apply to Artificial Intelligences. So what changed Jag's mind?

Wasn't it simply Data's rights to body autonomy as a person rather than property?

 

[eschaton]

I’ve always had the thought that in the 90s, as the potential of genetic engineering started to become more known among the general audience, the Trek production started to realize that it had missed the boat with regard to its futurism in that regard, as in 250+ years it’s highly likely that genetic engineering will be more widespread and everyone will be augmented in some fashion. Fortunately for the Trek writers, the presence of Khan and the Eugenics Wars in Trek’s history gave them a convenient out to say “genetic engineering is bad and illegal, m’kay.”

To be fair, Trek also kinda missed the boat on computing and robotics.

I mean, yeah, there are humanoid robots going back all the way to TOS, but humans still seem to do a tremendous amount of things (from routine repair tasks to steering starships) that you'd expect to be mostly automated.

Kurtzman Trek has shown more repair drones and the like, but still, there's a ton of essentially modern-day scutwork going on which doesn't seem plausible given the general thrust of technological progress.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

And that Vulcan admiral.What’s his beef?
Christ,if he’s a Romulan plant with his own agenda I will put my boot through the tv.

Oh god, yeah. Please just let him be a Vulcan asshole with a logic stick up his butt.

 

[Skipper]

Wasn't it simply Data's rights to body autonomy as a person rather than property?

It's an interpretation yes, but nothing in the episode explains what made the Jag to change her mind. At one point, she just started to babble about "souls" (quite jarring in a secular show like Star Trek), something that had nothing to do with was said during the hearing. Simply, episode's time ran out.

 

[Santa Kang]

I thought this was a good episode, but I just found it hard to reconcile the federation allowing one of their worlds to put children in jail for something that was done to them by their parents.

They allow fights to the death on Vulcan.

 

[voyager1]

I have only watched this episode once. I am a straight, hetero, white guy in my 40s. I remember watching many do the deeper TNG episodes as a teen. I didn’t really get a lot of the deeper meanings as much at that age.

There was so much in this episode. I got a bit emotional at the end. This is one of the best episodes of Star Trek period. And it is so timely with all hatred towards the LGBTQ+ and pro choice populations.

10/10 Well done.