Exactly. And he was evolving even before he went to DS9. In the TNG season 5 premiere, he spared Toral's life when it was his to take after the Klingon civil war.
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
It's kind of a conundrum. Logically, yes, given the mess he created, he probably should die. However, that doesn't lead to the promise of leaving them in a good place.
In the crazy ideas thread, I propose a potential out. No idea if it'll be that. But, even if it is, if Jack survives, he should be wracked with guilt over what he enabled by voluntarily approaching the Queen.
I really think it will be Picard sacrificing himself with Jack. Given the trauma of being Locutus and how it's haunted him for over 30 years, it's probably the only way he'll find peace.
(It would remind me of the ending of THE STRAIN, which worked.)
(It would remind me of the ending of THE STRAIN, which worked.)
And yet you claimed that Seven calling Data a robot was worse than Shaw deadnaming Seven?!?!?
It seems like with your multiple contentious posts, you're deliberately making provoking statements to get a rise.
Eugh where to start where to start.
FANKWANKERY! Look it's nice to see Shelby again, but it's in a general puking of nostalgia. The USS Sulu. And the USS Excalibur. And the USS Drexler. And USS Okuda. And USS Ross (Admiral Ross?). Poor Shelby after all these decades is lost in the mix. Launch her on the Enterprise F for added distraction amongst literal fireworks.
Also this does for some reason strike a very Earth-centric nerve for me. Shelby talked about how Starfleet started with Archer's Enterprise. Did it though? That was an earth ship. It got humans into space and we may have been the catalyst for the Federation - but it's not the birth of Starfleet. Similarly every ship name is all Earth-related. Why do the other cultures not get a say in this?
I kept thinking the most obvious thing was that Picard gave Borg sperm to Jack. I was hoping that wasn't the case. Of course it's the Borg again. Of course Jack is with queen Borg within 5 minutes because well who knows because.
Shaw is dying. "He'll call her Seven," I say to my cat. Of course he does. Of course he does. They don't have a modicum of subtlety in their bones.
Enterprise D. Of course. One man has fixed an entire smashed up saucer section. Why does he have it? Who knows. How did he fix a saucer smashed into a planet? Don't ask. Why did he retro-grade the bridge from Generations.. well nostalgia probably. He hated the uniform he had to wear in Generations and was never seen so he hates that bridge as it triggers him. We want flashy lights back. But not season one red panels, don't go too far Geordi.
Star drive? Oh just found an odd nacelle or two and bolted it on. Sure, sure...
And now the Galactica and Adama... sorry Enterprise and Picard can go deal with the Cylons... sorry Borg. Or is it Changelings?
A Changeling/Borg story is fan fiction fodder, or one of those novels that just was never seen again by a nobody author as it's just shit story telling.
A modern way of assimilation I think is actually quite compelling. They have to evolve. The whole cybernetic implants may be as we looked at trepanning once, and the Borg will modernise. Here they have a nugget of something interesting. Then they ruin it by arbitrary bullshit like... "Unless you're over 25. Every race, you suddenly stop being Borgable because.. erm.. something about brains."
But seriously, rewriting you if you transport if you want to do dark shit that's a treasure trove.
Look, I'm a TNG fan boy. Did my loins stir a bit when I saw the Enterprise-D? Of course they did. Did hearing Majel Barret again make me slightly tearful, yes it did. But it still doesn't mean that it's not delivered on a shovel of shit.
I also think it undermines Generations. I love Generations, but hardly the most beloved film. But it had a story of loss. When I watched it at 19ish, it was just a fun film and didn't resonate. Now having lost my parents, having no children... god the story makes so much sense. But from the loss of the D to René, it was about moving on.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. But I rather believe than time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important how we lived."
But GOTCHA.... The D is back. Picard is dead, but GOTCHA he's been replaced by a robot with a copy of his brain. He doesn't have offspring but oh GOTCHA all is okay he has a son. Why not have René pop out of a Jefferies tube, it wasn't a fire it was just a slight burn and he's alright now.
Generations while fun and a favourite of mine will never be considered writing greatness. But it's amazing how Picard can shit even over all that and all its messages in every way and. Just. Not. Get. It.
FANKWANKERY! Look it's nice to see Shelby again, but it's in a general puking of nostalgia. The USS Sulu. And the USS Excalibur. And the USS Drexler. And USS Okuda. And USS Ross (Admiral Ross?). Poor Shelby after all these decades is lost in the mix. Launch her on the Enterprise F for added distraction amongst literal fireworks.
Also this does for some reason strike a very Earth-centric nerve for me. Shelby talked about how Starfleet started with Archer's Enterprise. Did it though? That was an earth ship. It got humans into space and we may have been the catalyst for the Federation - but it's not the birth of Starfleet. Similarly every ship name is all Earth-related. Why do the other cultures not get a say in this?
I kept thinking the most obvious thing was that Picard gave Borg sperm to Jack. I was hoping that wasn't the case. Of course it's the Borg again. Of course Jack is with queen Borg within 5 minutes because well who knows because.
Shaw is dying. "He'll call her Seven," I say to my cat. Of course he does. Of course he does. They don't have a modicum of subtlety in their bones.
Enterprise D. Of course. One man has fixed an entire smashed up saucer section. Why does he have it? Who knows. How did he fix a saucer smashed into a planet? Don't ask. Why did he retro-grade the bridge from Generations.. well nostalgia probably. He hated the uniform he had to wear in Generations and was never seen so he hates that bridge as it triggers him. We want flashy lights back. But not season one red panels, don't go too far Geordi.
Star drive? Oh just found an odd nacelle or two and bolted it on. Sure, sure...
And now the Galactica and Adama... sorry Enterprise and Picard can go deal with the Cylons... sorry Borg. Or is it Changelings?
A Changeling/Borg story is fan fiction fodder, or one of those novels that just was never seen again by a nobody author as it's just shit story telling.
A modern way of assimilation I think is actually quite compelling. They have to evolve. The whole cybernetic implants may be as we looked at trepanning once, and the Borg will modernise. Here they have a nugget of something interesting. Then they ruin it by arbitrary bullshit like... "Unless you're over 25. Every race, you suddenly stop being Borgable because.. erm.. something about brains."
But seriously, rewriting you if you transport if you want to do dark shit that's a treasure trove.
Look, I'm a TNG fan boy. Did my loins stir a bit when I saw the Enterprise-D? Of course they did. Did hearing Majel Barret again make me slightly tearful, yes it did. But it still doesn't mean that it's not delivered on a shovel of shit.
I also think it undermines Generations. I love Generations, but hardly the most beloved film. But it had a story of loss. When I watched it at 19ish, it was just a fun film and didn't resonate. Now having lost my parents, having no children... god the story makes so much sense. But from the loss of the D to René, it was about moving on.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. But I rather believe than time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as important how we lived."
But GOTCHA.... The D is back. Picard is dead, but GOTCHA he's been replaced by a robot with a copy of his brain. He doesn't have offspring but oh GOTCHA all is okay he has a son. Why not have René pop out of a Jefferies tube, it wasn't a fire it was just a slight burn and he's alright now.
Generations while fun and a favourite of mine will never be considered writing greatness. But it's amazing how Picard can shit even over all that and all its messages in every way and. Just. Not. Get. It.
Wow. Never heard Generations' message so ardently defended as being a good thing. This fandom is the most fascinating when it finds values and feels they are "shit upon." Fascinating.
The exact reason I've avoided this season. It is like the writers aren't even trying, stick nostalgia in a blender and dump the mess on a page.
Why should they? What has the audience indicated that they want?
it’s really on the nose. Troi sensed the dark side when she got on the ship.
Jack don’t have Kylo’s chest though.
Why wouldn't they? They chose their profession and the job of working on Picard.
It isn't up to the audience to come up with creative, engaging material.
No, but we live in a time of fear and reactivity to negative press. The cultural attitude around nostalgia his huge money, and that's what people have consistently called out for with Trek. The moment a new series is annouced there's questions of "Where's this group? Will we see this character." And the ratings bear out the story that trying to be original doesn't automatically bring in people's interests, while familiar faces generate traffic.
No, it's not up to the audience. But, the writers fear the audience and will move to kowtow to their demands.
Generations underscores just how horrific what Crusher did in Picard really was. What was Picard's fantasy life in the Nexus? It wasn't wiping out the Borg or being CNC of Starfleet or anything like that. It was to be at home with a family. And Beverly deprived him of that without even giving that family life a shot.
Fear makes people do poor things. Decisions based on fears rarely are logical or positive.
And Beverly was afraid of losing a son.
And Beverly was afraid of losing a son.
Generations is about Legacy, and what you leave behind, about the difference you make.
It isn’t about loss at all, that is just the plot line used to make the characters and audience consider that. It’s why Kirk is even in the film, and the subject of his great monologue.
At worst, this series of Picard is about those same themes, but from a different angle.
It isn’t about loss at all, that is just the plot line used to make the characters and audience consider that. It’s why Kirk is even in the film, and the subject of his great monologue.
At worst, this series of Picard is about those same themes, but from a different angle.
Generations handles it better. Wow. Can’t believe I said that.
It's actually more relevant too to our current scenario. The birthrate is going down. It's harder and harder for people, especially men, to get dates in an increasingly demanding society. Picard dealing with his brother's and nephew's deaths and the fact that the course of his life did not lead him to an ideal romance and family life and that realistically this isn't going to be happening anytime in the future and he needs to come to terms with that is probably far more relevant in 2023 than it was in 1994.
See, now I need to rewatch it.