Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x09 - "Võx"

[gweeps]

I don't think holding off the Jack reveal until the finale was worth it. If we'd done this sooner, there would have been space for reflection and to really properly develop themes and character work around generational divides, legacy, connectivity etc.

Instead, I've felt like plot and themes have been in a death grip of mutually-assured destruction for weeks now as the 'mystery' played out. Plot contrivances to support character moments are fine with me. Quick shorthand for motivation so we can get back to the plot are also fine. But this season tried to do both and has ended up with neither a good plot nor credible emotional stakes.

The one thing that did get lavish priority were the homages. It's felt like nine hours of unboxing a time capsule to see what we put inside all those years ago. I know that has a lot of emotional resonance for a lot of fans and I'm happy that's brought so many people so much joy. I'm disappointed to find how much it does not work for me.

I bet the pandemic hampered a lot of plans for more character interaction/greater scene variety. Also, wasn't the budget slashed/gobbled up with all the legacy actors and cameos?

Honestly, I feel like Shaw is the best new character we've seen this season. Maybe in the whole series, save Jurati and Laris.

 

[StewMc]

The Borg being behind it all was the obvious answer, but there were so many bizarre theories out there that I had almost convinced myself a Pah-wraith possessed Armus was going be behind the red door.

 

[Scionz]

I am still not sure what the fuck was going through anyone's heads with Season 1 and 2. Was the basic plot of Season 2 already decided when Matalas took over? This does not feel like the same show at all.

Season 1 and 2 boils down to Patrick Stewart not wanting to do a TNG reunion show.
Season 1 had a showrunner in Chabon, who seemed to not know much about TNG / Trek.
Season 2 had Goldsman, who did his homework but got overwhelmed, which is why Matalas was brought in to help him. Matalas was given Season 3.

But everything about 1 and 2 boils down to Patrick Stewart not relenting to do "TNG Season 8", as Matalas and Blass have called this season, until the last moment. Everything else boils down to that. He wasn't going to come back and put on the uniform. Heck, 3 seasons, he's worn the modern uniform exactly once, in Season 2. In Season 1 it was only for flashbacks. Besides that, it's been civilian wear that's echo'd the uniform without being the uniform. Stewart spent much of the 2000s post-Nemesis and half of the 2010s having complicated feelings regarding Trek and the Picard character, which he figured he was done with. It took the failure of Blunt Talk and I think looking at the clock with his own health, to come back and do Picard, and even then, it was only going to be in a form like Season 1.

Frankly, I'll watch Season 3 time and time again. And maybe Season 2 some time. But I can't imagine watching all of Season 1 again. Maybe snippets.

 

[dinzy]

Why? Because I want Trek to being neck deep in Trek? If I want to watch people cavorting around present day Los Angeles, there's fifteen different police procedurals for me to choose from.

No he just wanted people like me to be able to vote his post down and vote yours up. I appreciate the details about the show running, because I couldn't see S2 being all Matalas's fault after this season. This season is masterclass nostalgia + tying up old lore threads into pretty ribbons that are satisfying.

 

[thribs]

This will bring a new policy to Starfleet that you must be over 25 before you can join.

 

[gweeps]

So time travel?

I just hope we see Q "out there". But we probably won't. :\

I calculated we only got 25 minutes of John de Lancie in Season 2. Man, that's simply not enough!

 

[gweeps]

If anyone could've cured Jack, it would've been Jurati's faction. Yet they're not even mentioned.

They don't fit the plot of the Picard anthology series. lol

 

[thribs]

Season 1 and 2 boils down to Patrick Stewart not wanting to do a TNG reunion show.
Season 1 had a showrunner in Chabon, who seemed to not know much about TNG / Trek.
Season 2 had Goldsman, who did his homework but got overwhelmed, which is why Matalas was brought in to help him. Matalas was given Season 3.

But everything about 1 and 2 boils down to Patrick Stewart not relenting to do "TNG Season 8", as Matalas and Blass have called this season, until the last moment. Everything else boils down to that. He wasn't going to come back and put on the uniform. Heck, 3 seasons, he's worn the modern uniform exactly once, in Season 2. In Season 1 it was only for flashbacks. Besides that, it's been civilian wear that's echo'd the uniform without being the uniform. Stewart spent much of the 2000s post-Nemesis and half of the 2010s having complicated feelings regarding Trek and the Picard character, which he figured he was done with. It took the failure of Blunt Talk and I think looking at the clock with his own health, to come back and do Picard, and even then, it was only going to be in a form like Season 1.

Frankly, I'll watch Season 3 time and time again. And maybe Season 2 some time. But I can't imagine watching all of Season 1 again. Maybe snippets.

I have no issue with Patrick Stewart not wanting to do a TNG reunion show. I just wanted a good story. What they should have done is explored Picard’s other interest in archeology and done a story about that. Sci fi Indy if you will. That way you get him away Starfleet and it doesn’t go against his character.

 

[Quinton]

I'm betting it'll be an hour tops.

Yeah, there hasn't been an episode of modern Trek that's gone past the hour mark by more than a couple of minutes, and I feel like we'd have heard by now.

 

[Scionz]

The Borg being behind it all was the obvious answer, but there were so many bizarre theories out there that I had almost convinced myself a Pah-wraith possessed Armus was going be behind the red door.

The Pah Wraith thing made zero sense. I don't know how that even caught on.

To tell the story properly and contextualize what the Pah Wraiths are to someone who hasn't seen DS9 since 1997 would have required an explanation or even a mention of the Bajoran religion within the previous 8 episodes of the season. That never happened. Also Pah Wraiths are such a deep cut into DS9... far more than the Changelings. The Borg, on the other hand, are part of TNG (and ironically Picard's) DNA. I just don't know how people convinced themselves of the Pah Wraiths. Did they really think after 8 episodes, they'd just explain Bajoran religion in 2 sentences in episode 9? Silly.

And Armus and Redjack were equally silly. Armus? C'mon. He had no plan. He wasn't malevolent in a "destroy the federation" sense. He was an alien of the week. Redjac? A TOS deep cut? People...

The options were "Locutus" independent of the Borg, and the Borg. I bet it was the former (I got the details mostly right though), but it ended up being the latter. But the reveal was never the point. It's not that kind of show. The point is to get the TNG team together again on their final mission.

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

I thought it was pretty mediocre. Very rushed - some of this should have happened three episodes ago.

I don't understand why Picard only has two modes when it comes to nostalgia, the "everything is different this is dark and gritty!" of season 1, and the "look, look! feel nostalgia!" of the past episode. The final few minutes of them getting on the D wasn't all that emotional for me, because it had been so telegraphed.

I also thought it was pretty forced how they ended up with only the D bridge crew on the D... as others have pointed out, they could have dragged Shaw to the shuttle for Beverly to look at him, etc. As it is, things are a bit too convenient. Also, why are they immediately setting course for Earth? They'll get obliterated. Do they have a plan?

The bit about only people under 25 was a nice touch, and a fairly natural way to isolate the old crew. But really, there was nobody else over 25 on the Titan who made it down to the maintenance deck? Again, seems forced.

Some bits of plot wondering:

• if the aim of the borg is to destroy the Feds and they are ruthless about it, why didn't they blow up spacedock and maybe Earth's 10 largest cities as soon as they got control of the fleet? That would give them much more breathing room to carry out their evil plan.
• Did the youngborgs hear Picard's call for everyone to meet on the maintenance deck? If not, why not? And if so, how did the olds get there first?

I bet the Borg queen has Beverly's face or something.

I wish they had done the Game of Thrones thing (before it got crap) of having the climactic battle in the penultimate episode, leaving the final episode to show the aftermath. As things stand I can't see how the finale will be anythign but ultra rushed.

 

[sevenstars]

I have no issue with Patrick Stewart not wanting to do a TNG reunion show. I just wanted a good story. What they should have done is explored Picard’s other interest in archeology and done a story about that. Sci fi Indy if you will. That way you get him away Starfleet and it doesn’t go against his character.

THAT would have been amazing.

 

[NCC-73515]

The Pah Wraith thing made zero sense. I don't know how that even caught on.

red eyes.

So the assimilated fleet blew up the excelsior… does that mean they killed Elnor?

If it's been >4 years, he's probably an officer on another ship now

 

[Tuskin38]

Presumably leftover from when the season was supposed to take place in 2411, not 2401, which also would explain multiple other things

Except Shelby clearly states what Frontier day is celebrating

First thing I thought. WTF was S2 even about then? And all the smart asses fixing to be smart-assy with some glib reply can just shut up, because I don't care if you didn't like it. It still happened. It was a story they told just last year.

Oy, this goddamned show. Why?

We never saw the real Borg in season 2. Just the confederation timeline borg.

Could these be Borg that may have been traveling in the transwarp corridors when Janeway blew chit up and they just dropped out all over the Delta quadrant?

That could account for them not being a part of Jurarti's group.

The entire collective wasn’t destroyed by Janeway. If the Sphere chasing Vlyager could adapt to the virus, others could have as well.

Not in this episode.
STO would have a difficult time making that fit.

They ignore things that are incompatible with their story.

I think it's more interesting what they did with the Bog in Seasons 1/2. But I suppose it makes sense that the Borg Queen from Voyager's series finale would be lying in wait. And the BQ we saw for more of Season 2 wasn't the same, and neither is Jurati, so...

Wait a sec. I just remembered. Didn't the Borg Queen die in Endgame with the alternate Janeway? lol

#fanservice

At least Season 2 had the balls to kill off Q of all characters...

The queen has died twice already, maybe 3 times.

These are not the Chabon-Hippie writers room S2 Borg trying to make them all nice and friendly. These are not the tamed Voyager Borg. These are the absolute horrific BORG, the original flavor. Troi's reaction is perfect as that's how anyone should react to a Borg Cube. This episode corrected the damage and nerfing to the Borg that Voyager did, and erases the asanine S2 Borg made friendly for todays softer audience.

Matalas was part of the season 2 story group. He had just as much hand in it as the rest.

Like who the fuck is Michael Chabon? He wrote some fucking book? Who gives a fuck. Sure he's a Trek fan... a casual Trek fan. The JJ Abrams kind that is a little embarrassed by Trek being Trek which is why Season 1 is so differentff. His involvement in Season 1 really seems like he opted to do the show to slap a line on his resume to try and move up in Hollywood.

Bullshit. He wasn’t embarrassed. He loves Star Trek. It was a connection he had to his late father. Just following his Instagram during the airing of Season 1 would shows just how much he loved trek.
He wrote entire world building backstories for that season.

You’re writing slander.

 

[Scionz]

I have no issue with Patrick Stewart not wanting to do a TNG reunion show. I just wanted a good story. What they should have done is explored Picard’s other interest in archeology and done a story about that. Sci fi Indy if you will. That way you get him away Starfleet and it doesn’t go against his character.

Oh I agree. But there is a 90% chance that Michael Chabon had no idea about any of that. And I mean, look Patrick Stewart is a terrific actor, but his creative input has never been the best. He got bored with Picard after Season 6 and came back for Season 7 by getting a big payday. He was the one that pushed "Action Hero" Picard in the TNG movies as a way to try and get himself un-bored with the character. He was the one who pushed for the bad humor of Insurrection, the lower stakes plot and the love story that became a gag 30 years later by Captain Shaw. And the movie he had the most creative input, Nemesis, was the most maligned and basically drove him out of Trek for 17 years besides a couple of video games and conventions.

Recall the pre-season 1 interviews. Patrick Stewart came back to Trek because he felt he wanted to do a kind of response to the Trump-xenophobic moment America was in by being a version of the moralizing character he found boring in 1993. He wanted to tell a story about losing ones way and finding their way back, which he did.

Season 3 isn't about that. Season 3 is basically the biggest TNG event-movie imaginable (as promised). Given the Trekk-i-ness of this season, I wouldn't be surprised if he creative input was comparatively far lower and he was much more just an actor this season.

 

[Scionz]

red eyes.

Yeah. That was a very weak connection. The red eyes could have been anything.

 

[Tuskin38]

Season 3 isn't about that. Season 3 is basically the biggest TNG event-movie imaginable (as promised). Given the Trekk-i-ness of this season, I wouldn't be surprised if he creative input was comparatively far lower and he was much more just an actor this season.

I see no difference between this Picard and Seasons 1 and 2 Picard

 

[dinzy]

Season 1 and 2 boils down to Patrick Stewart not wanting to do a TNG reunion show.
Season 1 had a showrunner in Chabon, who seemed to not know much about TNG / Trek.
Season 2 had Goldsman, who did his homework but got overwhelmed, which is why Matalas was brought in to help him. Matalas was given Season 3.

But everything about 1 and 2 boils down to Patrick Stewart not relenting to do "TNG Season 8", as Matalas and Blass have called this season, until the last moment. Everything else boils down to that. He wasn't going to come back and put on the uniform. Heck, 3 seasons, he's worn the modern uniform exactly once, in Season 2. In Season 1 it was only for flashbacks. Besides that, it's been civilian wear that's echo'd the uniform without being the uniform. Stewart spent much of the 2000s post-Nemesis and half of the 2010s having complicated feelings regarding Trek and the Picard character, which he figured he was done with. It took the failure of Blunt Talk and I think looking at the clock with his own health, to come back and do Picard, and even then, it was only going to be in a form like Season 1.

Frankly, I'll watch Season 3 time and time again. And maybe Season 2 some time. But I can't imagine watching all of Season 1 again. Maybe snippets.

I knew the Chabon > Matalas stuff but not how mixed up S2 was other than that it does not seem like the same show, regardless of the cast.
It is definitely 3>>2>>>>>>1. S3 of Picard also makes Disco seem worse to me. I mean I was happy Trek was on with it, and I watch every Season and prioritized it over early Picard when they both aired together.... But they had a crying kid cause the whole Galaxy to go into a dark age in Season 3 and then had the moronic idea to have their Chief Engineer act like a toddler when his hypothesis on what was happening in S4 was rendered incorrect when new evidence became available, i.e. they made the main science guy basically anti science.

SNW was much better than I expected it to be and really highlights how good the old format still is today. I would like to see them try another Matalas show, but I can't really see anything being as good as this using legacy characters. A continuation with Seven could work I suppose, but the 10 hour movie is so hard to get right and SNW is already doing the classic Trek style.

 

[gweeps]

Another stray thought.

I know you can argue that the events of the last 8 episodes 'activated' Jack and made him aware of his Borg powers, but it's kind of funny that Vadic's entire storyline is rendered pointless by the fact that Jack just goes to the Collective on his own anyway.

This whole series has been a convoluted mess. Too many ideas vying for space.

DS9's final 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Picard's.

 

[BBC 2 6pm]

Recall the pre-season 1 interviews. Patrick Stewart came back to Trek because he felt he wanted to do a kind of response to the Trump-xenophobic moment America was in by being a version of the moralizing character he found boring in 1993. He wanted to tell a story about losing ones way and finding their way back, which he did.

Ironically, the plot of this season has pretty much the opposite message. It's more like, you have enemies everywhere who are out to get you, and many of the people 'on your side' are actually traitors/impostors.