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Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x05 - "Imposters"

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ToddCam said:
While I could see the appearance and internal mechanisms of Odo's communicator being copied, I do find the idea that Odo can emit signals and be networked with various ships'/stations' computer systems hard to accept. I assume there's some software involved.
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Totally. But then he is a flat deck plate, or gloops out of one, badge and all, and there’s just no other explanation. You can explain it being taken off of him (haircut) and pray to the gods of handwavium when he doesn’t just make another one (handwavium is definitely in the pantheon of many fandoms) but when there’s no telltale lumps bumps or tinkle sounds, and he’s busy pretending to be ‘you are here’ on the promenade (some days he probably just screws with tourists) before popping up, then there’s no choice. And once there is no choice, it becomes part of the world building and character. Changelings are living replicators at the end of the day.

Can you imagine the stories about changelings that stayed so deep in cover that they had to wait for nature to take its course after they disguised themselves as a jum’ja stick? Or that time never to be spoken of again where Odo spent too long as a bottle of Kanar on a stag-do in Quarks? XD
 
ToddCam said:
While I could see the appearance and internal mechanisms of Odo's communicator being copied, I do find the idea that Odo can emit signals and be networked with various ships'/stations' computer systems hard to accept. I assume there's some software involved.
Click to expand...

I tend to adopt what I think is the simplest explanation: It just seems unrealistic that Odo could make a working communicator but not a more accurate face. Ergo, that communicator is a real one he carries around with him.

If we can't make allowances like that for 30+ year old productions, how the heck can we ever enjoy these series? Just like I can accept that the Enterprise of SNW is the Enterprise of TOS, even if they look a bit different, because it's been fifty freaking years since they showed the original Enterprise. Its the same reason I handwave the whole "Women can't be captains" from Turnabout Intruder or the Eugenics Wars happened in 1996. And when we hit 2065 and still haven't met any Vulcans, I'll handwave that away too (Probsbly while adjusting my Depends at that point, but oh well).

I get that some people like arguing about this stuff, or creating explanations for it, and that's great. But when it starts to interfere with your ability to enjoy an objectively pretty good show, you've gotta ask yourself if it's worth the effort.
 
Regarding Odo and shapeshifting abilities to align everything with production issues.

1. maybe we are looking at things the wrong way around.
His face and every other’s Changeling’s is indeed something like a primordial default.
This explains why other Changelings use it when humanoid, which includes properties like eyes, ears, nose, tactile senses and verbal attributes.
What Odo mistook as other humanoid’s faces being hard to imitate is just this particular face being so easy it is pure instinct and reflex to assume it over any other.

2. I think I read in a book years ago that Changelings have a weird superpower of shoving access mass into a hidden pocket dimension or subspace fold when changing shape.
Again production issues in real life, but Changelings clearly change not just shape but their whole mass to mat whatever they are imitating. Examples being a glass with a drink or a bag or a rat or a bird, list goes on.
If we accept this explanation, the subspace fold could be where the communicator goes when it’s not needed, like when he imitates a flat surface.

3. while I can buy that Changelings can change their molecular structure enough to imitate chemical reactions even, I don’t think they can write millions of code of software for a piece of technology that they replicate to be fully functional.
Somehow this crosses the line for me.
 
jaime said:
Totally. But then he is a flat deck plate, or gloops out of one, badge and all, and there’s just no other explanation. You can explain it being taken off of him (haircut) and pray to the gods of handwavium when he doesn’t just make another one (handwavium is definitely in the pantheon of many fandoms) but when there’s no telltale lumps bumps or tinkle sounds, and he’s busy pretending to be ‘you are here’ on the promenade (some days he probably just screws with tourists) before popping up, then there’s no choice. And once there is no choice, it becomes part of the world building and character. Changelings are living replicators at the end of the day.

Can you imagine the stories about changelings that stayed so deep in cover that they had to wait for nature to take its course after they disguised themselves as a jum’ja stick? Or that time never to be spoken of again where Odo spent too long as a bottle of Kanar on a stag-do in Quarks? XD
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Eh, ultimately, if I feel I need to justify anything, the communicator briefly goes to the Kosmosian dimension, where he draws the additional mass needed for some things and shunts mass when he needs to be smaller, all subconsciously. And with that, I think I won a No-Prize! (Is that too obscure a reference?)
 
ToddCam said:
Eh, ultimately, if I feel I need to justify anything, the communicator briefly goes to the Kosmosian dimension, where he draws the additional mass needed for some things and shunts mass when he needs to be smaller, all subconsciously. And with that, I think I won a No-Prize! (Is that too obscure a reference?)
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If that wins a prize I think I get it, because I beat you to it by one post! XD
 
vulcancicada said:
Yes, well destroying the debris would be easier than getting a giant section of a ship through an atmosphere intact, no?
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Indeed. In the novels (which are not canon but here make sense) they empty it, cut it to pieces and remove those from the planet.

Tuskin38 said:
Pretty sure we just got the reason in this episode.
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Possibly. And for me it works, it's a very minor detail easily explainable.
 
ToddCam said:
Eh, ultimately, if I feel I need to justify anything, the communicator briefly goes to the Kosmosian dimension, where he draws the additional mass needed for some things and shunts mass when he needs to be smaller, all subconsciously. And with that, I think I won a No-Prize! (Is that too obscure a reference?)
Click to expand...
A communicator is pretty flat anyway, easy to hide it in a small hump iun the floor or bulkhead.
 
The Picard -Ro conversation about the events of “Preemptive Strike” was really interesting vs. the actual episode Preemptive Strike. It was one of the best episodes that season and the emotions of Picard’s disappointment and Ro’s divided loyalty and guilt about betraying Starfleet were definitely there. But never would I have watched the original episode and thought that both characters were broken-hearted or that Ro was feeling crushed under Picard’s intense, rigid expectations. Or that both were so affected by this they’re still bitter 30 years later.

S3 has done this in other relationships such as Picard and Beverly having an on-again off-again romance we never knew about, but that was off-screen so I’m not as thrown by it or how it fits in.
I like the episode and the conflict but it felt overboard considering what we saw in TNG.
 
jackoverfull said:
...yet bashir was quite surprise to see his tricorder reading actual internal organs once he’s turned human.
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On the other hand, that does mean it's trivial for Starfleet tech to detect internal organs. If other changelings couldn't mimic them, detection would be a lot easier than it was treated as being, no?

Forget all the blood tests and phaser sweeps, just point a tricorder at somebody!
 
Gepard said:
On the other hand, that does mean it's trivial for Starfleet tech to detect internal organs. If other changelings couldn't mimic them, detection would be a lot easier than it was treated as being, no?
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Maybe Odo wasn't a good enough shapeshifter to fool a tricorder when he's in humanoid form.

Or because Odo wasn't trying to hide from scanners, he had no need to fool them.
 
Lt Mo said:
The Picard -Ro conversation about the events of “Preemptive Strike” was really interesting vs. the actual episode Preemptive Strike. It was one of the best episodes that season and the emotions of Picard’s disappointment and Ro’s divided loyalty and guilt about betraying Starfleet were definitely there. But never would I have watched the original episode and thought that both characters were broken-hearted or that Ro was feeling crushed under Picard’s intense, rigid expectations. Or that both were so affected by this they’re still bitter 30 years later.

S3 has done this in other relationships such as Picard and Beverly having an on-again off-again romance we never knew about, but that was off-screen so I’m not as thrown by it or how it fits in.
I like the episode and the conflict but it felt overboard considering what we saw in TNG.
Click to expand...

I actually felt Ro had a closer relationship with Riker than Picard in TNG. The closest we get to follow up to that is him clocking the earring isn’t her usual one etc. (Picard is looking at the wrong ear I think… her hair is over the right ear. Though I am not certain on this, it’s been a while.)
 
Tuskin38 said:
Maybe Odo wasn't a good enough shapeshifter to fool a tricorder when he's in humanoid form.
Click to expand...

That was always my interpretation, yeah. But if so it does mean that, as with the bucket, the writers this season (incorrectly) generalized off of Odo for how to depict the changelings.

Not a big deal to me, but it is inconsistent and I get why people are annoyed.
 
Cr0sis21 said:
I tend to adopt what I think is the simplest explanation: It just seems unrealistic that Odo could make a working communicator but not a more accurate face. Ergo, that communicator is a real one he carries around with him.

If we can't make allowances like that for 30+ year old productions, how the heck can we ever enjoy these series? Just like I can accept that the Enterprise of SNW is the Enterprise of TOS, even if they look a bit different, because it's been fifty freaking years since they showed the original Enterprise. Its the same reason I handwave the whole "Women can't be captains" from Turnabout Intruder or the Eugenics Wars happened in 1996. And when we hit 2065 and still haven't met any Vulcans, I'll handwave that away too (Probsbly while adjusting my Depends at that point, but oh well).

I get that some people like arguing about this stuff, or creating explanations for it, and that's great. But when it starts to interfere with your ability to enjoy an objectively pretty good show, you've gotta ask yourself if it's worth the effort.
Click to expand...

I just flip it around, because we have seen him make a more accurate face, and features, usually when he is not in full control of himself. The communicator is a side dish, as his face speaks to character.
 
Skipper said:
It's my impression or they made the Bajorian's node ridges more subtle on Ro? I noted them only in the close-ups.
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I still miss antennae edition Ro. So sad to see her in that shuttle. :(
I just hope Bells is still alive, or all my Starfleet teen crushes are no more. Some didn’t even last their series.
(Sito…)
 
Skipper said:
It's my impression or they made the Bajorian's node ridges more subtle on Ro? I noted them only in the close-ups.
Click to expand...
I wondered that as well. The way the lighting was done at some angles, it didn't appear as if she had the nose ridges at all. They were definitely more subtle than, say, Lt Mura, who seems to have the more traditionally pronounced ridges:
Mura.png

If I were to guess, I suspect that the lighter prosthetic appearance was likely at the request of Michelle Forbes.
 
From TNG Pre-emptive Strike
5hCzBcx.png
 
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