Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x07 - "The Serene Squall"

[Donald G]

I find it curious that the impulse thrusters were in the warp nacelles and, that by taking them out, the ship lost impulse power. I would have thought that they were at the aft of the primary hull. Learned something new every day.

About Uhura, it was stated by Mr. Adventure in Star Trek III that she was a twenty-year space veteran.

Alpha Braga IV's system has another planet mentioned in the canon - Alpha Braga VII (Okudagram, "Inheritance")

Mr. Adventure says that she's a 20 year space veteran. Did Mr Adventure research her service record before making his statement or did he just pull a very rough (and inaccurate) estimate out of the air as people tend to do in conversation?

Admiral Morrow in that film also claimed that the Enterprise was "twenty years old" in the same film when she had to be at least 37 old to account for "The Cage."

 

[firehawk12]

Angel left the real Dr Aspen (pointedly referred to as "they/them" in dialog) to die somewhere. So evil bad was standing in for an actual non-binary person. But yeah. Even so the actor obviously relished the role. And accepted it knowing the twist.

Pike continues to use 'them' after he learns that they were behind the capture of the Enterprise, so the assumption is that Angel is also non-binary... that or the characters simply made the assumption I suppose.

As for the role, I feel like it borders on camp though, so perhaps. lol

 

[Yistaan]

Mr. Adventure says that she's a 20 year space veteran. Did Mr Adventure research her service record before making his statement or did he just pull a very rough (and inaccurate) estimate out of the air as people tend to do in conversation?

Admiral Morrow in that film also claimed that the Enterprise was "twenty years old" in the same film when she had to be at least 37 old to account for "The Cage."

Considering ST3 is 26 years from now, Uhura's record could just be rounded incorrectly as 20 years.

As for Morrow, well we all know that a resource strapped Starfleet is going to refit the Enterprise circa 2265 to turn it into a budget 1960s looking ship, "almost a completely different ship" as Will Decker might say, and that's what Morrow was going on.

Pike and the crew's campy arranged mutiny scenes were so absurd. No actual pirate would have bought that.

It occurred to me the Orion pirate could have been Mudd and with Spock on the Enterprise it would have worked preserving Spock not knowing Mudd in TOS.

 

[Kelso]

When they were setting up how far out they were at the beginning of this one, how they needed to drop buoys even to be able to communicate, I said "Ohhhh, I LOVE how SNW is making space big again!" What a delightful departure from Discovery's practice of having all points in the galaxy only one hour away from each other, I thought.

Then at the end it took T'Pring 30 seconds to get there from Vulcan. It was nice while it lasted. I'm just going to tell myself a lot more time elapsed between scenes there than was suggested.

T'Pring wasn't on Vulcan. She was at the rehabilitation facility on the third moon of Omicron Lyrae.

It makes sense, as the entire evil plan hinged on luring the Enterprise to the area where Sybok was being held while T'Pring was there.

 

[Sakonna]

When Angel refers to the real Dr. Aspen they used 'they'.

Angel also said they never lied about who they truly were, so I think I'm coming away with the conclusion that Angel and the real Dr. Aspen are both non-binary. (Also, I hope they mounted a Dr. Aspen rescue mission after this!)

I honestly didn't notice. Things like gender pronouns pass me by when I watch TV. I guess when I rewatch I will look for it more.

I also think Angel's gender identity doesn't demand to be engaged with in order for the story to work, in contrast to, say, how TNG's "The Outcast" demands you engage with the genderless J'Naii and what it means that they're cast with all women in a gay parable. On a thematic level it certainly feels like a purposeful choice on the writers part, given that Aspen/Angel spends the whole time talking about the binary in Spock, but I also think it's a fine reading to just ignore that and go along with the story.

Angel left the real Dr Aspen (pointedly referred to as "they/them" in dialog) to die somewhere. So evil bad was standing in for an actual non-binary person. But yeah. Even so the actor obviously relished the role. And accepted it knowing the twist.

I was actually totally surprised by the Dr. Aspen twist, just because I didn't consider it a possibility that Trek was going to do a non-binary or trans villain yet. This franchise has only had Adira, Gray, and (if we're counting balls of energy) Zero in terms of trans or non-binary representation so far, I didn't think we were at the "evil non-binary character" stage yet.

But, as a gay guy, I distinctly remember how boring it was when every gay character was sweet and sexless, and what a fucking relief it was when we had enough overall gay representation that we could start having gay villains again, so maybe this time society is just getting through that cycle quicker?

Keitel is non-binary and uses she/her pronouns, going by Wikipedia. The character that Keitel plays uses they/them pronouns. Luckily, there is no one right way to be trans, ergo if Keitel claims to be non-binary and use she/her pronouns then that is simply that.

Yeah, I clarified upthread, but the missing piece for me was that she also identifies as non-binary. I have read about her and seen some of her other work and I only ever encountered her referred to as a transwoman, then I checked her IG and it listed only she/her, so I initially thought this was a case of an exclusively female-identified person being cast to play a non-binary role. Knowing they also identify as non-binary, now the casting makes sense to me.

 

[brandnewfan]

Even when an episode of this series is a little mundane, it’s still more interesting and engaging and watchable than Discovery.

 

[Yistaan]

I like Gia Sandhu but now that we have Stonn proper I think it would be very, very, very realistic to have T'Pring suddenly "ghost" Spock. Ignoring his messages, etc. Spock wondering what he did wrong but not wanting to push as he doesn't want to become a stalker. Ditching Leila Kalomi because he believes T'Pring is out there waiting for him even while she's banging Stonn. Don't let the audience see T'Pring's point of view either to get the satisfaction of knowing the whole story to alleviate the confusion. Just let them experience Spock's sudden confusion and turning to his Vulcan side fully to deal with the pain.

In a world where people are increasingly turning to evil and violence from an inability to get a relationship, let Spock show people how it's done the right way. Accepting no means no, doing the right thing, not becoming a stalker, etc.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Ahh. There it is. I was waiting for it.

As I said in a previous thread, some groups have been misrepresented and underrepresented in entertainment for all if it. So it's nice when they get some fair presentation.

But over representation isn't good or realistic either.

 

[SG-17]

I'm enjoying this series overall, but I can't help but acutely feel the lack of stakes in each episode. This is a problem with Prequels, but especially so with ones reusing old characters, we know where Spock, Pike, Chapel, and the ship end up. I don't feel like they've sufficiently fleshed out the new characters yet for me to care about them enough to feel any strong emotions in each episode.

 

[DaveyNY]

The gender identification of Angel wasn't really part of the plot of this particular story.
(it actually was rather insignificant overall)

I can understand personally identifying with certain characters in ones entertainment, but this particular conversation is more than a bit off the beaten track.

It's refreshing to see stuff like this done, but making a big deal out if it, I don't believe was really the intention of the producers in this particular case.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Angel also said they never lied about who they truly were, so I think I'm coming away with the conclusion that Angel and the real Dr. Aspen are both non-binary. (Also, I hope they mounted a Dr. Aspen rescue mission after this!)


I also think Angel's gender identity doesn't demand to be engaged with in order for the story to work, in contrast to, say, how TNG's "The Outcast" demands you engage with the genderless J'Naii and what it means that they're cast with all women in a gay parable. On a thematic level it certainly feels like a purposeful choice on the writers part, given that Aspen/Angel spends the whole time talking about the binary in Spock, but I also think it's a fine reading to just ignore that and go along with the story.


I was actually totally surprised by the Dr. Aspen twist, just because I didn't consider it a possibility that Trek was going to do a non-binary or trans villain yet. This franchise has only had Adira, Gray, and (if we're counting balls of energy) Zero in terms of trans or non-binary representation so far, I didn't think we were at the "evil non-binary character" stage yet.

But, as a gay guy, I distinctly remember how boring it was when every gay character was sweet and sexless, and what a fucking relief it was when we had enough overall gay representation that we could start having gay villains again, so maybe this time society is just getting through that cycle quicker?


Yeah, I clarified upthread, but the missing piece for me was that she also identifies as non-binary. I have read about her and seen some of her other work and I only ever encountered her referred to as a transwoman, then I checked her IG and it listed only she/her, so I initially thought this was a case of an exclusively female-identified person being cast to play a non-binary role. Knowing they also identify as non-binary, now the casting makes sense to me.

Ok you are talking about how angel was talking about spocks dual lineage. I thought you meant that angel was called they or them throughout the episode. I noticed the duality discussion but didn't equate that to non binary just spocks dual lineage. But I think I see where you are coming from on that point.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I'm enjoying this series overall, but I can't help but acutely feel the lack of stakes in each episode. This is a problem with Prequels, but especially so with ones reusing old characters, we know where Spock, Pike, Chapel, and the ship end up. I don't feel like they've sufficiently fleshed out the new characters yet for me to care about them enough to feel any strong emotions in each episode.

Well thats just how prequels are. Msybe as time goes by this might end up being a alternate reality and then theur fates will be up in the air. It really depends on the producers and if they want to bring the crew back as older with Pike in charge for a movie or something.

 

[Sakonna]

I'm enjoying this series overall, but I can't help but acutely feel the lack of stakes in each episode. This is a problem with Prequels, but especially so with ones reusing old characters, we know where Spock, Pike, Chapel, and the ship end up. I don't feel like they've sufficiently fleshed out the new characters yet for me to care about them enough to feel any strong emotions in each episode.

It's interesting to me how so many characters on this show have a tragic past (Uhura, La'an, Una), but the prequel positioning also shows us many of the others also have a tragic future (Pike and the beep chair, T'Pring's dark turn, awesome Chapel becomes a drip eternally hung up on an uninterested man after her husband dies, M'Benga loses his prestigious position, Sam Kirk's horrible death). Yet with all this tragedy just past and also waiting for these people, the actual show is a fun delight with a light touch. I wonder if that's the core of SNW's message -- it's been bad and it will get worse, but seize enjoyment whenever you can.

T'Pring wasn't on Vulcan. She was at the rehabilitation facility on the third moon of Omicron Lyrae.

It makes sense, as the entire evil plan hinged on luring the Enterprise to the area where Sybok was being held while T'Pring was there.

Oh, that is great! Love it, thanks for fixing it for me.

 

[fireproof78]

Well thats just how prequels are. Msybe as time goes by this might end up being a alternate reality and then theur fates will be up in the air. It really depends on the producers and if they want to bring the crew back as older with Pike in charge for a movie or something.

Prequels are meant to fill out our knowledge of characters.

Also, I never understood the comment around "We know the characters are going to live." Because I never expected the main characters to die, especially in TOS.

 

[Yistaan]

Bringing in religious fanatic Sybok at a time when real world religious tensions are a gazillion times higher than they ever were in 1989 is... well I know if Sybok wanted to find God he'd probably try to steal a time crystal (maybe from Boreth) and then time travel back two and a half thousand years to meet a certain someone on Nazareth, Earth, etc. But there's just no way they can do such an episode and not offend someone. Say for example Sybok goes back then and finds that nothing happened, then goes insane and tries to reach the center of the galaxy. Yeah, that would put the show into controversy if not immediate cancellation.

I'm one of the few that enjoy Star Trek 5 a bit, but there doesn't seem to be a way to do a prequel of Sybok's religious quest without either offending lots of people or ultimately making the arc unsatisfying (turning him into a generic Dr. Evil villain, which seems to be what they're going for judging by the last scene)

 

[Sakonna]

Ok you are talking about how angel was talking about spocks dual lineage. I thought you meant that angel was called they or them throughout the episode. I noticed the duality discussion but didn't equate that to non binary just spocks dual lineage. But I think I see where you are coming from on that point.

I meant both, actually -- Aspen/Angel is consistently referred to with they/them pronouns, and I suspect the writers chose to have this character be non-binary because one of Aspen/Angel's main functions was to comment on the human/Vulcan binary within Spock. So it's an extra level of meaning if you like to analyze those things, and it's just background information building out the character if you don't.

 

[DEWLine]

We don't currently have a star catalogued as "Omicron Lyrae". Bayer apparently chose not to tag any star with that name.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I meant both, actually -- Aspen/Angel is consistently referred to with they/them pronouns, and I suspect the writers chose to have this character be non-binary because one of Aspen/Angel's main functions was to comment on the human/Vulcan binary within Spock. So it's an extra level of meaning if you like to analyze those things, and it's just background information building out the character if you don't.

Ok. I'll have to rewatch the episode and focus on the dialogue when angel is being referred to. I just didn't notice. Intend to analyze sets and costumes a lot when I watch TV and sometimes lose a bit.

 

[Trekker4747]

But over representation isn't good or realistic either.

Ships that move faster than light, devices that turn people into energy and transmit them to distant locations and aliens that look exactly like humans aren't realistic either. Non-binary, bisexual, LGBTQ+ people exist and are being recognized. Cope.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I think at some point Spock would have to kind of end it with T'Pring if Leila Kalomi is going to be introduced as a serious romance prospect.

I want them to hurt us here. I want to feel genuine pain. I want Spock and Chapel to come close to becoming an actual thing, to the point that Spock is considering breaking it off with T'Pring-- and then the the episode arrives where Spock meets Leila and Chapel meets Roger. Of course, Spock doesn't stay with Leila, possibly out of feelings of duty to T'Pring that he no longer feels in his heart, and soon after that Roger disappears, leaving Christine pining for him with both of them wishing things had worked out differently. Oh, it's going to be messy.