7 and Chakotay did anyone see that coming???
- Thread starter armyofdaleks
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The only thing I heard was that they were the "two best looking people" on the crew so naturally fans would get off on seeing them together whether it made sense from a characterization standpoint or not. Apparently, they thought we're just that shallow.
At the time C/7 was a great, big "huh?" Now going through the series on DVD, it's pretty obvious that Janeway went a little whack in the Delta with her single-minded determination to get home. That left room for no romantic complications with non-holograms.
I think Chakotay probably still wondered what it would have been like with Janeway (the wry grins now and then at suggestive comments), but he respected her decision to keep theirs a professional realationship. It makes Janeway a more poignant character, even if she is probably the most inconsistently written one in the history of Trek. One week she's a genius, the next an incompetent borderline mental case. Thank God Seven is there to save the day.
As has been said many times, the only characters that really mattered on a consistent basis were Seven and the Doctor (according to the writers) once Her Hotness (per the producers) came onboard. So of course she, the great ratings draw with the bionic boobs, gets C. & Janeway's look changes to that of a dowdy frump from season 4 on (despite being portrayed by the hot Kate Mulgrew - great legs, but you'd never know from Voyager).
I think Chakotay probably still wondered what it would have been like with Janeway (the wry grins now and then at suggestive comments), but he respected her decision to keep theirs a professional realationship. It makes Janeway a more poignant character, even if she is probably the most inconsistently written one in the history of Trek. One week she's a genius, the next an incompetent borderline mental case. Thank God Seven is there to save the day.
As has been said many times, the only characters that really mattered on a consistent basis were Seven and the Doctor (according to the writers) once Her Hotness (per the producers) came onboard. So of course she, the great ratings draw with the bionic boobs, gets C. & Janeway's look changes to that of a dowdy frump from season 4 on (despite being portrayed by the hot Kate Mulgrew - great legs, but you'd never know from Voyager).
seriously i always figured he'd end up wiv the captain
I hated that it happened in the first place. Janeway always seemed to right for Chakotay and vice versa. there are several episodes in which Janeway is talking to Chakotay and I SWEAR there is a look of regret on her face.
Of course nobody saw that coming. They pulled it out of the random plot generator hat.
When? I've watched the whole series through several times and have yet to find this in her character--no joke. Have you watched all seven seasons?
When posters say this about Janeway, I always ask for specific details, so I can understand what they're talking about. However, I have yet to have anyone back these comments up with facts. Please name the episodes that illustrate how she was "inconsistently written" by showing us a few times when "one week she's a genius, the next an incompetent borderline mental case." And, since you imply that these consecutive episodes happen often, more than one case please.
If you can't prove it, perhaps you should stop saying it? :thumbsup:
seriously i always figured he'd end up wiv the captain
We did get Human Nature, which was foreshadowing apparently. Yeah I wish Chakotay had ended up with Janeway. It's a shame that didn't happen.
The possibility of friendship maybe but there were no romantic overtones just screen time. If they really wanted to foreshadow the relationship "Natural Law" could have been used to indicate romantic interest but again, zip. "Human error" is really the only hint of romantic interest and that is really only from one side (being Seven's perspective).
"Romantic overtones" are really up to the viewer's interpretation. Some people see those candlelight dinners between J & C to be romance. I see them to be dinner between close friends.
And honestly, there was absolutely no hint of romantic interest on Janeway's part toward Chakotay.
It's all up to interpretation--and that's influenced by personal experience and taste, not just what's onscreen.
Absolutely true, all of it can be seen one way or the other--depending on the "bias" of the watcher.
However, I do think that the question the "past" Janeway asks Chakotay in "Shattered" answers some of the questions about Janeway's real feeligns toward him (if we assume that the past Janeway and the current one are of the same timeline).
"Just how close do we get?" implies that Janeway can easily imagine that they could get VERY close--and "Shattered" was aired in Season 7.
As for the dinners? Honestly, I have had lots of meals with bosses, but seldom, if ever, did we have candles and flowers at the table . . .
I disagree. But that's my interpretation. After all, Janeway was still very much in love with Mark at that point in time.
As for the dinners? Honestly, I have had lots of meals with bosses, but seldom, if ever, did we have candles and flowers at the table . . .
And well, I cook for male friends a lot. And there are always candles and flowers on my dining room table. And I take clients out to dinner, and it is always a restaurant with candles and flowers on the table.
As I said, my interpretation. Your mileage obviously varies. I'll let you have your interpretation if you'll let me have mine.
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Bellatrix
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Chakotay and Seven together was totally stupid. It came out of nowhere and was so pointless. I really like both characters but they just looked awkward and wrong together!
I really wanted Seven with the Doctor, and Janeway and Chakotay with eachother.
I really wanted Seven with the Doctor, and Janeway and Chakotay with eachother.
I have always thought it was going to be Janeway and Chakotay but it sucked that the possible romance between them dropped after "Resolution" when they were on the planet when they had the virus and then ended up just staying great friends and had dinner together on some occasions.
The writers should have not dropped the possible romance between Janeway and Chakotay.
As for Chakotay and Seven...that came out of nowhere and having them as a couple was the worst thing that can happen. I did not like them as a couple at all. They only just started just near the end of season 7 and I'm sure that Janeway did not know (before the Future Janeway mentioned about what was going to happen to Seven a few years later) they were dating.
The writers should have not dropped the possible romance between Janeway and Chakotay.
As for Chakotay and Seven...that came out of nowhere and having them as a couple was the worst thing that can happen. I did not like them as a couple at all. They only just started just near the end of season 7 and I'm sure that Janeway did not know (before the Future Janeway mentioned about what was going to happen to Seven a few years later) they were dating.
Just curious about what else her question could have meant, "Just how close do we get?" Yes, the past Janeway would have been very much in love with her fiance, but she'd just spent the last several hours finding out that she'd been stranded on the other side of the galaxy for a number of years with this very tasty man as her first officer--even to the point of loaning him her "cherished" copy of "Paradise Lost" which had been give not her by Mark. One can only imagine that she felt some attraction to him and acknowledged the potential for intimacy with him when she asked that question. I thought, at the time, that it was an pretty much admission of the "emotional subtext" that some of us saw between them earlier in the series, and I still think that.
What else could it have meant but that she definitely was attracted to him?
What else could it have meant but that she definitely was attracted to him?
Attraction is one thing.
That doesn't equate to love at first sight.
I've certainly been attracted to men that I don't pursue, and I've turned some down who pursue me--because I'm otherwise attached, because it could be a sticky workplace encounter, because while they're attractive, it's simply not a good time...
And it wasn't Paradise Lost, it was The Inferno...
What else could it have meant but that she definitely was attracted to him?
Attraction is one thing.
That doesn't equate to love at first sight.
I don't think anyone was trying to equate it to that. However, Janeway's question indicates Chakotay had mentioned enough details of their lives in the future to make her wonder about their future relationship.
I admit that went season 7 was first airing, I hated C/7 for all the reasons others have stated already.
But, as I rewatched the series on DVD, I began to see the clues for the possibility of their relationship. Scorpion II, Omega Directive, One Small Step, and a few other scenes that I don't recall off-hand show that Chakotay and Seven could be compatible as a couple. Perhaps because I already knew the ending, I interpretted the hints in their interactions as having romantic undertones. But I saw them and began to accept the possibilities.
Now, I don't believe for a minute that the writers in season 7 drew on those episodes to create this couple. I do think it was something pulled out of a hat for some random reason. Because of this, I call the clues that lead to their relationship "retro-continuity".
While I would have preferred J/C, I understand that Janeway made the decision to not let the relationship move past friendship. I also see that in C/7, Seven made the decision to pursue him. Chakotay made the choice that any man would have made -- be involved with the woman who wanted him.
So, C/7 works for me.
But, as I rewatched the series on DVD, I began to see the clues for the possibility of their relationship. Scorpion II, Omega Directive, One Small Step, and a few other scenes that I don't recall off-hand show that Chakotay and Seven could be compatible as a couple. Perhaps because I already knew the ending, I interpretted the hints in their interactions as having romantic undertones. But I saw them and began to accept the possibilities.
Now, I don't believe for a minute that the writers in season 7 drew on those episodes to create this couple. I do think it was something pulled out of a hat for some random reason. Because of this, I call the clues that lead to their relationship "retro-continuity".
While I would have preferred J/C, I understand that Janeway made the decision to not let the relationship move past friendship. I also see that in C/7, Seven made the decision to pursue him. Chakotay made the choice that any man would have made -- be involved with the woman who wanted him.
So, C/7 works for me.
What else could it have meant but that she definitely was attracted to him?
Attraction is one thing.
That doesn't equate to love at first sight.
I've certainly been attracted to men that I don't pursue, and I've turned some down who pursue me--because I'm otherwise attached, because it could be a sticky workplace encounter, because while they're attractive, it's simply not a good time...
And it wasn't Paradise Lost, it was The Inferno...
Ooops. I knew it was a long, depressing poem I read eons ago.
Actually, you've really made my point. Her question confirms that she was attracted to him, as you say, and while she might not have acted upon it while in the AQ and while her fiance is nearby, she wondered whether she might have done so while 70,000 light years away and working closely with him every day. That question, it seems to me, confirms, at last, that the attraction was mutual, even if she never found a "good time" to explore it during the series.
And while I, too, wonder about love at first sight between people, I am a believer in lust at first sight.
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