Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x07 - "…But to Connect"

[Yistaan]

Not really sure what laws Book has broken at this point? He's not Starfleet and not bound by their orders.

Aiding Tarka in the theft of spore drive technology from Discovery is a crime regardless of Book's actual citizenship, because it happened on Discovery which is Federation jurisdiction.

Legally analyzing sci-fi works is always sort of interesting. For example, I'm pretty sure Starfleet commited "real world" war crimes in putting bombs on the Klingon corpses at the Battle of the Binary Stars. Furthermore, in the Clone Wars movie at that other Star franchise, Obi-Wan commits a blatant war crime by faking surrender to the Separatists as a trick to lower their shields.

Ironically one of the most infamous events in sci-fi, Anakin Skywalker killing an entire tribe of sandpeople for revenge over the death of his mother in Star Wars, probably wasn't illegal in-universe as it's very likely the Hutts, who legally ruled Tatooine, don't give the sandpeople any rights and killing them wouldn't be a crime. Furthemore, the majority of Anakin's evil actions in the prequels and later on as Vader were legally authorized by the Emperor, who was granted emergency power by the Senate.

 

[DaveyNY]

Aiding Tarka in the theft of spore drive technology from Discovery is a crime regardless of Book's actual citizenship, because it happened on Discovery which is Federation jurisdiction.

Technically, Tarka didn't actually steal the Spore Drive, he created his own version with Star Fleet's blessing.
What he is really guilty of is kidnapping Book, though Book doesn't yet realize it.

 

[Sci]

Ironically one of the most infamous events in sci-fi, Anakin Skywalker killing an entire tribe of sandpeople for revenge over the death of his mother in Star Wars, probably wasn't illegal in-universe as it's very likely the Hutts, who legally ruled Tatooine, don't give the sandpeople any rights and killing them wouldn't be a crime. Furthemore, the majority of Anakin's evil actions in the prequels and later on as Vader were legally authorized by the Emperor, who was granted emergency power by the Senate.

I'm pretty sure that Anakin's massacre of the Sand People village in Attack of the Clones was still illegal under Galactic Republic law even if it was not illegal under Tatooine law; the Senate had not yet passed the resolution granting Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers, and even if it had, the Sand People were in no manner a threat to Republic security and thus killing them would not be authorized under that Act of Senate.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

What he is really guilty of is kidnapping Book, though Book doesn't yet realize it.

How does that work? Book agreed to go with Tarka. Is that really kidnapping at that point?

 

[DaveyNY]

How does that work? Book agreed to go with Tarka. Is that really kidnapping at that point?

When the reasons given for the victim to go along are complete lies then yes, it's a kidnapping.
It's like telling an unsuspecting little kid you've got candy or puppies in your fancy white van and all they have to do is just come along and see for themselves.
Once they are in, the evil deed is done.

 

[Sci]

Yeah, luring someone into an environment you control with an intent to deny them free movement to leave is still abduction if it is done under false pretenses, even if the victim does not realize they are being abducted.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm pretty sure that Anakin's massacre of the Sand People village in Attack of the Clones was still illegal under Galactic Republic law even if it was not illegal under Tatooine law; the Senate had not yet passed the resolution granting Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers, and even if it had, the Sand People were in no manner a threat to Republic security and thus killing them would not be authorized under that Act of Senate.

But, as noted, Tatooine isn't part of the Republic. It's an Outer Rim world ruled by the Hutt crime families. They don't accept Republic credits, Republic political leaders have no safe haven there, slavery is still permitted, etc.

The Empire exerted temporary jurisdiction there in ANH because, well, they're the Empire, and they'll do whatever the hell they please. And they had the muscle and firepower to back it up if the Hutts tried to start something, but then they left again once their objective was gone.

Tusken Raiders are treated as no better than animals or savages to most of the locals, and an obstruction to business to the Hutts, so no one is likely to object to Anakin's slaughter of them, especially regarding the circumstances that precipitated it. This is not a defense of Anakin in any way, just an assessment of the local reaction from the likes of Kleig Lars and the moisture farmers who sent out a posse after Schmi was kidnapped and got their asses handed to them.

 

[Sci]

But, as noted, Tatooine isn't part of the Republic.

Sure, but I have a hard time imagining that the Galactic Republic does not apply its laws against murder to its citizens on an extraterritorial basis. The idea that all a Republic citizen* has to do to get away with murder is hop in a freighter, land on a planet outside of the Republic, and select their victim, seems like a pretty huge loophole the Republic would want to close very early on its history.

* Is there a demonym for citizens of the Galactic Republican? "Republican" sounds like it would be a metatextually dangerous name to apply....

 

[cooleddie74]

As corrupt and prone to overlooking objectionable behavior as the Republic was by its final 13 years of existence I doubt that Anakin Skywalker would ever have been prosecuted for mass murder on a world that was so far outside the safe and respectable space lanes that Republic currency wasn't even accepted.

 

[Sci]

As corrupt and prone to overlooking objectionable behavior as the Republic was by its final 13 years of existence I doubt that Anakin Skywalker would ever have been prosecuted for mass murder on a world that was so far outside the safe and respectable space lanes that Republic currency wasn't even accepted.

I agree, but lack of enforcement does not mean his actions were not illegal.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I agree, but lack of enforcement does not mean his actions were not illegal.

In a Republic controlled by Palpatine? The slaughter pretty much WAS legal.

 

[Turtletrekker]

In a Republic controlled by Palpatine? The slaughter pretty much WAS legal.

He would, in his own words, "make it legal".

 

[Sci]

In a Republic controlled by Palpatine? The slaughter pretty much WAS legal.

Ah, but Palpatine did not truly control the Republic yet! Anakin mass murdered the Sand People village before the Senate passed Representative Jar Jar Binks's resolution to grant emergency powers to the Supreme Chancellor!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Sure, but I have a hard time imagining that the Galactic Republic does not apply its laws against murder to its citizens on an extraterritorial basis. The idea that all a Republic citizen* has to do to get away with murder is hop in a freighter, land on a planet outside of the Republic, and select their victim, seems like a pretty huge loophole the Republic would want to close very early on its history.

* Is there a demonym for citizens of the Galactic Republican? "Republican" sounds like it would be a metatextually dangerous name to apply....

Who's going to report him to the authorities? Anakin himself? He clearly didn't tell Obi-Wan or Yoda or Mace Windu or the rest of the Master-Bait-&-Switchers. He did tell his best bud, the head of the entire government, and Papa Palatine just put it on Anakin's resume under special skills, right after "Fluent in Space Excel". Padme? Nope, she looked horrified for all of three seconds and then remembered his charming speech about sand getting in his crevices, wanting a benevolent dictator, literally Force feeding her food, and how she met Anakin when he was a small child and fell "so in love" with this dashing mass murderer all over again. The Lars family? They clearly felt no burning need to speak to troopers about misdeeds committed against "sandpeople" who they considered savages and no better than animals and who had cost their father a leg and a wife and them a stepmother. No one else knew.

Also, I think you're being generous with the Republic's level of care for things happening outside their territory. Obi-Wan didn't get the Jedi to do jack squat to deal with the slavery situation on his padawan's homeworld despite all the trouble that might have prevented. Slavery (and carbon freezing and murder) that would often involve the abduction of citizens of the Republic and later Empire who crossed the Hutts in some way.

I agree, but lack of enforcement does not mean his actions were not illegal.

Oh, so we're talking about it in an abstract "we say it's wrong, but don't actually do anything to enforce it" kind of way? Because they clearly didn't.

I could not find any reference to what a citizen of the Galactic Republic would be referred to as.

I mean, they have Space Latin words (Acclamator and Venator Star Destroyers, etc.) and it was roughly based on the Roman Republic, so I guess "Cives" would work for individuals and "Civitas" for the whole body of citizens.

Anyway, go ahead and give your reply, but I'm gonna drop out now so we don't take this too far off-topic.

 

[Lord Garth]

Yeah, I want it back on topic too...

... only because as a Non-Star Wars Fan, I have no idea what anyone's talking about!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yeah, I want it back on topic too...

... only because as a Non-Star Wars Fan, I have no idea what anyone's talking about!

Duuuuuuuuude, The Mandalorian (and Book of Boba Fett) tho. Seriously, man, give it a shot. I think you'd like it. And it's a quick binge-watch.

 

[eschaton]

Duuuuuuuuude, The Mandalorian (and Book of Boba Fett) tho. Seriously, man, give it a shot. I think you'd like it. And it's a quick binge-watch.

I liked Mando, but I found Boba so boring I stopped watching after the second episode...and I'm not sure if/when I'll finish the series.

He's just not that compelling of a character - and he's not portrayed by that compelling of an actor.

 

[137th Gebirg]

One person's "boring" is another's "thoughtful".

Jus' sayin...

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I liked Mando, but I found Boba so boring I stopped watching after the second episode...and I'm not sure if/when I'll finish the series.

He's just not that compelling of a character - and he's not portrayed by that compelling of an actor.

Major spoilers for people who are interested in watching the show, so don't click on it if you don't want to know.

Spoiler: Book of Boba Fett Final Three Episodes

If you're a Mandalorian fan, the last three episodes of the season are
Episode 5 - 95% about Mando
Episode 6 - 95% about Grogu / Baby Yoda and some Mando
Episode 7 - 50% about Mando fighting alongside Boba Fett, and some Grogu

So the bottom half of the Boba Fett series is essentially like Season 2.5 of The Mandalorian. Just something to consider if you like the character. You can skip to those episodes and watch the recaps and be all caught up.

 

[Photoman15]

Isn't this a Star Trek Discovery thread?