IT WILL EARN THAT TITLE WITH RESPECT.
Wait, what?
Wait, what?
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 4x07 - "…But to Connect"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
This is the way.
The Lars family? They clearly felt no burning needto speak to troopers
I see what you did there.
I am indeed talking about the law de jure, not the law as it is de facto enforced at the time of the PT.
Ooo, I like "Galactic cives"...
They show characters thinking though their strategies which is nice to have, characters being capable of thinking for themselves. There's good tension and the high stakes was properly established I think. I see that Ruon is slowly losing credibility with Booker because Ruon is slowly being revealed as a hypocrite. He see's the Federation is blindly loyal to their tradition that is emotion/feelings based in his eyes and not logic, but Ruon is being motivated by some type of past trauma so he is operating out of his feelings as well and not logic. Booker is starting to see that I think and is about to flip on Ruon when it comes down to it.
I do like as well how they are showing that (idealistic) Federation members are capable of thinking outside of the box and adopting a means justify the ends approach when appropriate. They just have a higher bar and do not default that stance so easily like Ruon and non Federation members. This also shows Ruon (and those who think like him, stand up if you're represented) continuously underestimate idealists like the Federation that they are capable of logic and using data and not the governed solely by emotions and feelings, and that they don't know how the real world/universe operates.
My nits about the episode is more about modern Star Trek not believing in it's own premise. Ideally you'd have a situation where you'd have Federation and Star Trek principles explained and supported very well to go along with the counter arguments used by the other side and it's about the audience deciding who is more right. That would be something to actually think about.
Instead we have the Federation characters just being loyal to an ideal tradition out of something like pride only, instead of it being well supported principles within the context of the franchise (this is star trek afterall). So this episode and storyline is just a simple battle of wills, who is more capable of getting their way, the Federation or Ruon. Symbolized by the poker game and combat sport scenes.
I was thinking when listening to the dialog from Michael supporting the Federation to the Admiral giving that same tired (and lacking in substance) mantra she and others always give and as if she has to prove she is loyal to Federation principles but why? I don't think modern day Star Trek writers and producers can even answer that question.
7/10 just because they do at least have some stuff rumbling beneath the surface that I can think about. They did set up Ruon as not being as sophisticated and smart like he pretends to be. He has some weaknesses that is going to do him in. Like he is clearly not operating with a plan. He's a live in the moment type of dude and that's going to catch up to him. He is prideful so he thinks he can outsmart the Federation who he clearly doesn't respect to even think he has a chance of beating them, kind of like how modern star trek doesn't respect the franchise and it's long time fans.
I do like as well how they are showing that (idealistic) Federation members are capable of thinking outside of the box and adopting a means justify the ends approach when appropriate. They just have a higher bar and do not default that stance so easily like Ruon and non Federation members. This also shows Ruon (and those who think like him, stand up if you're represented) continuously underestimate idealists like the Federation that they are capable of logic and using data and not the governed solely by emotions and feelings, and that they don't know how the real world/universe operates.
My nits about the episode is more about modern Star Trek not believing in it's own premise. Ideally you'd have a situation where you'd have Federation and Star Trek principles explained and supported very well to go along with the counter arguments used by the other side and it's about the audience deciding who is more right. That would be something to actually think about.
Instead we have the Federation characters just being loyal to an ideal tradition out of something like pride only, instead of it being well supported principles within the context of the franchise (this is star trek afterall). So this episode and storyline is just a simple battle of wills, who is more capable of getting their way, the Federation or Ruon. Symbolized by the poker game and combat sport scenes.
I was thinking when listening to the dialog from Michael supporting the Federation to the Admiral giving that same tired (and lacking in substance) mantra she and others always give and as if she has to prove she is loyal to Federation principles but why? I don't think modern day Star Trek writers and producers can even answer that question.
7/10 just because they do at least have some stuff rumbling beneath the surface that I can think about. They did set up Ruon as not being as sophisticated and smart like he pretends to be. He has some weaknesses that is going to do him in. Like he is clearly not operating with a plan. He's a live in the moment type of dude and that's going to catch up to him. He is prideful so he thinks he can outsmart the Federation who he clearly doesn't respect to even think he has a chance of beating them, kind of like how modern star trek doesn't respect the franchise and it's long time fans.
This weeks episode was a massive improvement on the previous installment of the Discovery franchise. We begin with the crew attempting to solve the mystery of Species 10-C’s origin. Zora however decides that she will withhold the location from the Discovery crew in order to protect them from the possible dangers, she even breaks the Captains orders. I’m again assuming that Species 10-C is located beyond the Galactic Barrier and uses a worm hole to enter our galaxy rather than navigating through the barrier itself? This is also where I am beginning to get the impression that this weeks episode will be the Disco equivalent of Measure of a Man, originally guest starring Brian Brophy! It is a shame that they could not have cast Brian Brophy in this episode as a Federation specialist on AI, he could have been part of Zora’s defence team!
The Federation members next begin to assemble in order to discuss the DMA, I still can’t remember what the acronym DMA stands for as we have not had a reminder for a few episodes. United Earth is represented, along with the planet Titan. Does this mean that there were some problems on Earth during the 32nd century and Earth had to be reunited politically as a planet? The last time that Earth was referred to in this way was during the 22nd century. Also, I know that when the Vulcan’s and Romulan’s reunified they renamed their species as Ni’Var. does anybody know where this name came from as it seems like a random choice of a name for the combined species so far unless I have missed something? It was a pleasure to hear of Denobilans again via the analogy of Denoblian blood worms! The allegory of how we should not judge other species by our own social and cultural contexts was spot on. Anyway, this episode is definitely off to a great start, the special effects of the Federation council meeting were also very well done and it was great so see so many different aliens gathered together! In particular the white alien guy looked super cool. Kudos to the makeup department!
It’s funny how Zora is a super intelligent sentience capable of many things yet the crew still use her like we would use Siri or Alexa to play music and turn lights on and off etc. It shows a lot about Zora’s character and patience that she is not developing a ‘god complex’ and getting annoyed by such trivial and monotonous every day tasks. The debate that the crew are having is whether Zora will continue to develop emotionally and start reacting on those emotions in ways that may be detrimental to the ship and crew. But isn’t this the same for any life form? Especially for a new form of life as young as Zora - despite her vast knowledge she is still technically almost a child? Zora just needs counselling as she discovers these new feelings and emotions as well as being given a shot of social and moral development education. Perhaps Zora will eventually be extracted from the ships computer and be given a ‘Gollum’ type body such as happens with Picard and Grey? Zora next creates a fail safe to prove to the crew that she only has their best interests at heart - if she does go rogue, they can easily terminate her program. But this leads to another moral question; if Zora is indeed a sentient life form, what gives anyone the right to murder her if she makes a mistake or does end up doing something detrimental to the ship and crew? Surely she should be tried under a legal system first? Would the crew terminate any other life form they encounter if they needed to? Probably… but it’s still a bit of morally grey area in my opinion.
Tarka makes an appearance, presenting a plan to the Federation council which could help to resolve the whole DMA situation. His plan involves another acronym that we all know the meaning of - he has designed a WMD. Tarka comes across as cartoonishly arrogant so far, though we find out a deeper layer to the character later on in the episode. I do believe that if the Federation make the wrong choice and decide to go ‘nuclear’ against species Species 10-C, they could possibly be making a similar mistake to that which…
But maybe Species 10-C will end up being like Species 8472? What if Tarka is right and this is the best option? I don’t think that it is the best option so far though, it goes against all Federation moral principles. This action would also break some of the Khitomer Accords, and that is *never* a good thing to do. The resulting explosion would also damage subspace and prevent warp travel, similar to the situation last season when the alien kid got angry and did the same thing on a much larger galactic scale. We do find that Tarka has an ulterior motive to his plot, he wants to use the energy from this weapon to break down the barriers between universes… he wants to travel to a peaceful parallel universe where everything is perfect. This sounds to me just like the plot line of Star Trek: Generations so far but with *slightly* better intentions - he wants to cause massive galactic destruction in order to reach his ‘Nexus’ just like Malcom McDowell’s Tolian Soran did. Soran had suffered a similar loss as well, the Borg had destroyed the El Aurian homeworld, his family and friends…
The Federation thankfully vote *against* using this WMD against the DMA thanks to a melodramatic speech from Michael Burnham stating obvious Federation values and principles that all of the delegation should have adhered to anyway as Federation members. It is also to be noted that Book did try to persuade the delegation to go ahead with Tarka’s plan - we can sympathise with this though as the DMA did destroy Book’s homeworld, friends and family so he is obviously angry about that and all of this considered would understandably cloud anybody’s judgment.
It should also be noted that the United Earth did not vote for peaceful first contact…. Hmmmm….
Back to Zora, Stammets does a very good job at reaching out to the sentience - he puts this down to learning his counselling techniques from Culber who is a therapist. I thought that he was a Doctor? Or is he both? That is a very good skill set for Culber to have. Anyway, his persuasive language bares fruition - Zora releases the DMA coordinates to the crew.
Zora is eventually granted the status of being a recognised life form! Fantastic! Even better still… she is given a Starfleet commission!!!! I think that she is only classed as a ‘specialist’ crew member in a similar fashion as to how Seven of Nine was classed on the USS Voyager. Though it would be super cool if Zora got given an actual rank! Imagine if she became captain of the ship one day?
We now sadly say a fond farewell to yet another crew member, Gray (I can remember the characters name now!) departs for Trill in order to finish her training as a symbiont pool lifeguard. I wonder if we will see Gray again? I do think that Adira will function better as a member of the crew without Gray, their *extremely* close relationship could have been detrimental to her every day duties, they were just never away from each other.
Speaking of romances, Saru and T’Rina make an amazing ‘ship’ together! I hope that their romance develops as the series progresses.
Book and Tarka then sneak off with a contraband space mushroom spore drive and a WMD - they have gone rogue and intend to destroy the DMA with both a combination of vengeance and also the plan to reach their ‘nexus’ dream mirror universe…
I give episode 7 of Star Trek: Discovery, …But to Connect, 7/10. A massive improvement on last weeks episode!
The Federation members next begin to assemble in order to discuss the DMA, I still can’t remember what the acronym DMA stands for as we have not had a reminder for a few episodes. United Earth is represented, along with the planet Titan. Does this mean that there were some problems on Earth during the 32nd century and Earth had to be reunited politically as a planet? The last time that Earth was referred to in this way was during the 22nd century. Also, I know that when the Vulcan’s and Romulan’s reunified they renamed their species as Ni’Var. does anybody know where this name came from as it seems like a random choice of a name for the combined species so far unless I have missed something? It was a pleasure to hear of Denobilans again via the analogy of Denoblian blood worms! The allegory of how we should not judge other species by our own social and cultural contexts was spot on. Anyway, this episode is definitely off to a great start, the special effects of the Federation council meeting were also very well done and it was great so see so many different aliens gathered together! In particular the white alien guy looked super cool. Kudos to the makeup department!
It’s funny how Zora is a super intelligent sentience capable of many things yet the crew still use her like we would use Siri or Alexa to play music and turn lights on and off etc. It shows a lot about Zora’s character and patience that she is not developing a ‘god complex’ and getting annoyed by such trivial and monotonous every day tasks. The debate that the crew are having is whether Zora will continue to develop emotionally and start reacting on those emotions in ways that may be detrimental to the ship and crew. But isn’t this the same for any life form? Especially for a new form of life as young as Zora - despite her vast knowledge she is still technically almost a child? Zora just needs counselling as she discovers these new feelings and emotions as well as being given a shot of social and moral development education. Perhaps Zora will eventually be extracted from the ships computer and be given a ‘Gollum’ type body such as happens with Picard and Grey? Zora next creates a fail safe to prove to the crew that she only has their best interests at heart - if she does go rogue, they can easily terminate her program. But this leads to another moral question; if Zora is indeed a sentient life form, what gives anyone the right to murder her if she makes a mistake or does end up doing something detrimental to the ship and crew? Surely she should be tried under a legal system first? Would the crew terminate any other life form they encounter if they needed to? Probably… but it’s still a bit of morally grey area in my opinion.
Tarka makes an appearance, presenting a plan to the Federation council which could help to resolve the whole DMA situation. His plan involves another acronym that we all know the meaning of - he has designed a WMD. Tarka comes across as cartoonishly arrogant so far, though we find out a deeper layer to the character later on in the episode. I do believe that if the Federation make the wrong choice and decide to go ‘nuclear’ against species Species 10-C, they could possibly be making a similar mistake to that which…
…Admiral Picard made when he destroyed the Stargazer, failing to make an alliance with the Borg in order to defend the quadrant. Discovery would not even have had Q to help repair any mistakes now that the Continuum has sadly passed away…
But maybe Species 10-C will end up being like Species 8472? What if Tarka is right and this is the best option? I don’t think that it is the best option so far though, it goes against all Federation moral principles. This action would also break some of the Khitomer Accords, and that is *never* a good thing to do. The resulting explosion would also damage subspace and prevent warp travel, similar to the situation last season when the alien kid got angry and did the same thing on a much larger galactic scale. We do find that Tarka has an ulterior motive to his plot, he wants to use the energy from this weapon to break down the barriers between universes… he wants to travel to a peaceful parallel universe where everything is perfect. This sounds to me just like the plot line of Star Trek: Generations so far but with *slightly* better intentions - he wants to cause massive galactic destruction in order to reach his ‘Nexus’ just like Malcom McDowell’s Tolian Soran did. Soran had suffered a similar loss as well, the Borg had destroyed the El Aurian homeworld, his family and friends…
The Federation thankfully vote *against* using this WMD against the DMA thanks to a melodramatic speech from Michael Burnham stating obvious Federation values and principles that all of the delegation should have adhered to anyway as Federation members. It is also to be noted that Book did try to persuade the delegation to go ahead with Tarka’s plan - we can sympathise with this though as the DMA did destroy Book’s homeworld, friends and family so he is obviously angry about that and all of this considered would understandably cloud anybody’s judgment.
It should also be noted that the United Earth did not vote for peaceful first contact…. Hmmmm….
Back to Zora, Stammets does a very good job at reaching out to the sentience - he puts this down to learning his counselling techniques from Culber who is a therapist. I thought that he was a Doctor? Or is he both? That is a very good skill set for Culber to have. Anyway, his persuasive language bares fruition - Zora releases the DMA coordinates to the crew.
Zora is eventually granted the status of being a recognised life form! Fantastic! Even better still… she is given a Starfleet commission!!!! I think that she is only classed as a ‘specialist’ crew member in a similar fashion as to how Seven of Nine was classed on the USS Voyager. Though it would be super cool if Zora got given an actual rank! Imagine if she became captain of the ship one day?
We now sadly say a fond farewell to yet another crew member, Gray (I can remember the characters name now!) departs for Trill in order to finish her training as a symbiont pool lifeguard. I wonder if we will see Gray again? I do think that Adira will function better as a member of the crew without Gray, their *extremely* close relationship could have been detrimental to her every day duties, they were just never away from each other.
Speaking of romances, Saru and T’Rina make an amazing ‘ship’ together! I hope that their romance develops as the series progresses.
Book and Tarka then sneak off with a contraband space mushroom spore drive and a WMD - they have gone rogue and intend to destroy the DMA with both a combination of vengeance and also the plan to reach their ‘nexus’ dream mirror universe…
I give episode 7 of Star Trek: Discovery, …But to Connect, 7/10. A massive improvement on last weeks episode!
Last edited:
Explained in Season 3.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/first-time-crystal-built-using-googles-quantum-computer-20210730/ Time crystals HAVE been created.
Damn. If that’s a thing it could be revolutionary.
I'm late to catching up on the show, so no Spoilers please.
This never occurred to me, but now I'm in love with the idea!
It's been 700 years since DS9. Surely he can take a break from the Great Link every few centuries.
There idea of him being the backup Doctor would be fantastic too, though.
The fact that no one thought to point this out to her, instead heightening the conflict with essentially "I'm your captain, give it to me!" and "but we're friends, pweeeedy pweeeeze?" really aggravated me, and lowered my opinion on Burnham's command abilities.
Other than that I liked the episode.
This never occurred to me, but now I'm in love with the idea!
Why would it be disrespectful to Odo's character?
It's been 700 years since DS9. Surely he can take a break from the Great Link every few centuries.
There idea of him being the backup Doctor would be fantastic too, though.
The fact that no one thought to point this out to her, instead heightening the conflict with essentially "I'm your captain, give it to me!" and "but we're friends, pweeeedy pweeeeze?" really aggravated me, and lowered my opinion on Burnham's command abilities.
Other than that I liked the episode.
S3's "People of Earth"
established that United Earth had seceded from the Federation and retreated into itself, becoming isolationist to the point of establishing a planetary shield that cut Earth off from communications with its colony on Titan. However, Earth remained politically unified within itself. "... But to Connect" establishes that the Discovery's visit to Earth last season and restoration of contact with Titan has led to a new administration being elected that is rejecting isolationism, has reincorporated Titan back into United Earth, and is engaging with the galaxy again.
I think the idea is to emphasize that United Earth is a state that encompasses more than just Earth itself, but also encompasses colonies in the Sol system.
They renamed the planet as Ni'Var, not their species. Though "Unification III" did firmly establish that Vulcans and Romulans are the same species, so I'm not sure if there has been a different name established for their biological species separate from their cultural identities as Vulcans and Romulans.
As for the name Ni'Var, per Memory Alpha:
Ni var was a term coined circa 1967 by linguist Dorothy Jones, who wrote the Dorothy and Myfanwy series of Star Trek stories for the fanzine T-Negative in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It literally means "two form" and was an art form practiced on Vulcan in which a subject was examined from two different viewpoints, or in terms of its having two different aspects or natures. Ni var poetry and art were printed in Spockanalia and various other fanzines, and the term, actually part of a sophisticated Vulcan language invented by Ms. Jones, caught on like wildfire in the Star Trek fan community.
"Ni Var" was also the name of a novella originally entitled The Thousandth Man by Claire Gabriel, which was cut down to short-story length for publication in the 1976 anthology The New Voyages (edited by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath; the original novella by Gabriel was the final chapter of a six-part book which is now available for reading at Jacqueline Lichtenberg's website). In the story, it was "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole" (from Leonard Nimoy's introduction to the short story, which did not credit Ms. Jones as the originator of the term). It seemed likely that the ship of that name seen in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Shadows of P'Jem" was named after this story and that the writers were unaware of the origins of the term, as Ms. Jones' Star Trek stories were never professionally published and have been largely forgotten. According to episode co-writer Mike Sussman, the starship Ni'Var was indeed an homage to the short story published in The New Voyages. The Star Trek Encyclopedia (4th ed., vol. 2, p. 81) corroborated Sussman's account.
"Ni Var" was also the name of a novella originally entitled The Thousandth Man by Claire Gabriel, which was cut down to short-story length for publication in the 1976 anthology The New Voyages (edited by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath; the original novella by Gabriel was the final chapter of a six-part book which is now available for reading at Jacqueline Lichtenberg's website). In the story, it was "a Vulcan term referring to the duality of things: two who are one, two diversities that are a unity, two halves that come together to make a whole" (from Leonard Nimoy's introduction to the short story, which did not credit Ms. Jones as the originator of the term). It seemed likely that the ship of that name seen in the Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Shadows of P'Jem" was named after this story and that the writers were unaware of the origins of the term, as Ms. Jones' Star Trek stories were never professionally published and have been largely forgotten. According to episode co-writer Mike Sussman, the starship Ni'Var was indeed an homage to the short story published in The New Voyages. The Star Trek Encyclopedia (4th ed., vol. 2, p. 81) corroborated Sussman's account.
the special effects of the Federation council meeting were also very well done and it was great so see so many different aliens gathered together! In particular the white alien guy looked super cool. Kudos to the makeup department!
Agreed 100%, but one political nitpick: What we saw was not the Federation Council, but rather was an emergency diplomatic conference that included both Federation and non-Federation worlds. Memory Alpha calls it the Multilateral DMA Strategy Assembly.
For clarity: Gray is a transgender Trill man, not a woman; and Adira is a nonbinary Human, not a woman.
@Sci , thank you so much for that informative reply, it is appreciated. I did not know anything about the backstory of the word Ni’Var, now it all makes a *bit* more sense. ‘Shadow of P’Jem’ is one of my favourite Enterprise episodes, I never noticed that there was a ship in this episode also named Ni’Var… I am glad that there is some back story to this name rather than it being a random species name change made by the writers on a whim to make things ‘different’. It could almost be like a name for the Vulcan/Romulan union rather than the species - a bit like how sometimes people say that they are British instead of English or Scottish, or that they are European instead of German or French. This is probably all connected to ‘intergalactic border politics’.
Sorry for the gender confusion in regards to Adira and Gray, again thank you for clarifying. I think that it is easy for people to make mistakes when referring to gender identity when assumptions are made from visual assessments, it is however good that those mistakes can be corrected without anyone taking offence - this is how we learn. It *is* all a bit of a learning curve and potentially quite the proverbial mine field, it is easy for someone to step on one of these mines and cause an unintended or even intended explosion of offence, luckily we have mine sweepers here at TrekBBS. Does anybody remember that old Windows game btw? Minesweeper?
Sorry for the gender confusion in regards to Adira and Gray, again thank you for clarifying. I think that it is easy for people to make mistakes when referring to gender identity when assumptions are made from visual assessments, it is however good that those mistakes can be corrected without anyone taking offence - this is how we learn. It *is* all a bit of a learning curve and potentially quite the proverbial mine field, it is easy for someone to step on one of these mines and cause an unintended or even intended explosion of offence, luckily we have mine sweepers here at TrekBBS. Does anybody remember that old Windows game btw? Minesweeper?
No problem! I'm a politics geek so I eat this shit up.
FWIW, the writer of "Unification III" is Kirsten Beyer, a longtime ST fan, ST novel author, and TrekBBS member from back in the day. I'm pretty sure she selected the name because she knew about that kind of background trivia. It works really well!
Sorry for the gender confusion in regards to Adira and Gray, again thank you for clarifying. I think that it is easy for people to make mistakes when referring to gender identity when assumptions are made from visual assessments, it is however good that those mistakes can be corrected without anyone taking offence - this is how we learn. It *is* all a bit of a learning curve and potentially quite the proverbial mine field, it is easy for someone to step on one of these mines and cause an unintended or even intended explosion of offence, luckily we have mine sweepers here at TrekBBS. Does anybody remember that old Windows game btw? Minesweeper?
No worries. I know just from my own experience that un-learning the gender binary and making sure I don't misgender people can be a bit of a challenge. For me, it requires a fundamental reconceptualization of how I had always thought about human nature -- I was raised to think of everyone as being either male or female, and that indoctrination can be very easy to fall into without realizing it.
I always enjoyed ‘his’ Voyager books when I was a child. Of course, I am replying in jest with the male gender label… but back in the day I always *assumed* that Kirsten was a male author and did not learn otherwise until recent years. I am sorry for misgendering yet again, it’s easily done. This was the 90’s though and I was not familiar with the name Kirsten which sounds a *bit* like Kirk(sten)…
I had no idea that she ever ever posted here though?
I always enjoyed ‘his’ Voyager books when I was a child. Of course, I am replying in jest with the male gender label… but back in the day I always *assumed* that Kirsten was a male author and did not learn otherwise until recent years. I am sorry for misgendering yet again, it’s easily done. This was the 90’s though and I was not familiar with the name Kirsten which sounds a *bit* like Kirk(sten)…
I had no idea that she ever ever posted here though?
Well, her first ST novel was 2005's String Theory: Fusion, so I wonder if you might be thinking of a different author if you remember reading VOY novels by someone with that name in the 90s? But yeah, she used to post on the TrekLit forum a lot back in the day under her own name. She earned the nickname "Kirsten MotherFucking Beyer" after her book Full Circle became especially beloved.
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