Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x07 - "First Con-tact"

[Deks]

Rule of Acquisition #111: Treat people in your debt like family...exploit them.

So it would seem that Nandi selling out Dal would be par for the course in Ferengi society, regardless of biology.

(So much for the "Ferengi never practice slavery" argument, eh?)

That being said, it is aksi possible that Nandi - being a Ferengi female - feels obligated to out-Ferengi the Ferengi. Meaning, she tries extra hard to keep to Ferengi traditions, kind of like Worf trying especially hard to act Klingon because he wasn't raised as one. So while most Ferengi parents might not openly sell out their kids (it seems clear that Ishka, for example, would never have done that with Quark or Rom, because their family was a loving one), Nandi feels justified in doing so because she has something to prove.

Its possible that Ferengi as a society have no slavery on their homeworld (well, 'wage/work slavery' is basically the same thing, except its deemed socially acceptable to sell yourself/skills/time for money like it is in the real world - although it REALLY shouldn't be - and quite frankly, Humanity as a society has reached and surpassed the level where we could have eliminated the present system from existence and created a far better one decades ago where money, barter, trade and servitude of any kind DON'T exist), but selling someone INTO slavery for profit to another society that practices it could be allowed... or a proverbial loophole (aka, so long as you don't practice slavery on Ferenginar or in Ferengi society [in the sense of how Ferengi define 'slavery'], you're basically free to do as you please if it brings you profits).

But uhm... Ferengi females were effectively treated as little more than slaves until the Grand Nagus instigated changes so they have the same rights as any other male Ferengi, have they not? They had no real inclusion in society, no voting rights, no ability to wear clothing, no ability to earn profit like any other male Ferengi - but they have also worked in the house, raising kids, cooking, cleaning, etc... much like in the real world, these things aren't perceived as 'valuable' to society, so you effectively do them for nothing (and expend a LOT of time doing them)... and yet, society at the same time very much depends on those things to be done adequately so you can 'perform' as a wage slave in the real world (and also in the fictional Ferengi culture).

Mind you going into this, we brush on the aspect of MOTIVATION - and money is not a good motivating factor for creative tasks... in fact, it can be said that money was NOT the driving force for innovation... its been a hinderance every step of the way when you consider that most technology we have was developed from public entities such as universities and mainly via cooperation (not competition).


Anyway, in case of Ishka compared to Nandi... well, like any other Ferengi female, Nandi probably had every reason to behave as the worst (or should I say 'best') possible Ferengi male. Growing up in that kind of society will do a number on a persons' psyche. Nandi still grew up as part of Ferengi culture, so those 'values' would have been ingrained into her from a very young age and even if she flat out rebelled against the systemic oppression of women in Ferengi culture, other aspects of society such as the rules of acquisition are something she happily (or just because she doesn't know any better) takes up and is able to interpret them any way she wants (no one to enforce a different rule of conduct).

I wouldn't be surprised if Nandi took the Rules to the extreme on more than one occasion... or just used them to suit whatever the situation she found herself in.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I didn’t really care for the episode until they went down to the planet. I found the Ferengi was too annoying. I really liked the aliens here. Animation allows the aliens to be even weirder looking. Hard to do aliens like this in live action.

 

[Harpsichord]

But uhm... Ferengi females were effectively treated as little more than slaves until the Grand Nagus instigated changes so they have the same rights as any other male Ferengi, have they not? They had no real inclusion in society, no voting rights, no ability to wear clothing, no ability to earn profit like any other male Ferengi

This is an aspect of the Ferengi that DS9 plays for laughs and I get the feeling that Nandi is going to be the character who shows what kind of real damage this theocratic, patriarchal system does to a person. I earnestly believe that the writers of Prodigy would not bring a 'feemale' Ferengi into the equation without reckoning with the fact that, as Deks says here, women in Ferengi society are essentially slaves.

No one in this thread has mentioned the black marking on Nandi's face that covers her left eye. The Ferengi make some questionable fashion choices, sure, but I don't think this is just a bad makeup decision. Branding a woman who steps out of line is something I can easily imagine the FCA doing. It would explain her lack of crew because no blessed-exchequer-fearing Ferengi would dare join up with someone bearing the 'black mark'. It would explain why she is so far away from Ferengi space with no intention of returning, being marked as she is as a heretic. Stealing a ship and travelling to another quadrant would be her only choice.

I don't know, maybe it's just wishful thinking.. but I'd like to believe we're going to see Ferengi society portrayed more like the awful Handmaid's Tale it is and less like the silly-haha-joke DS9 played it off as.

 

[Vger23]

Lots of fun…they continue to manage to create a unique and interesting tone/feel with this show while capturing some true Star Trek magic. It seems like every week it comes together even more.

Right now, this is light years ahead of either of the franchise’s other animated series.

8/10

 

[cooleddie74]

Grand Nagus Rom certainly hasn't overhauled Ferengi society in just eight years. There have to be millions of Ferengi males who do what they can to get around Rom's and Zek's earlier decrees and directives giving women more freedom to travel, earn profit and interact in their society.

 

[Sci]

Which again begs the question, HOW did she end up there to begin with.
The Barzan Wormhole would present an option in the 7 years after it was seen on TNG (before the DQ end was destabilized)... and that's ONLY if she wanted to leave EVERYTHING behind in pursuit of her own personal profits (because I don't see what the point or incentive for other Ferengi would be to end up in an unknown part of the galaxy with no way of getting back and register their 'success' with other Ferengi - though Arridor and Kol were certainly happy to remain where they were and away from their financial superiors who would take away their profits if they deem it necessary).

I think either the Damsel was subjected to some sort of super-FTL technology a la the USS Voyager, or, warp or mini-super-FTL technologies are starting to become a thing in the UFP's local area of space (possibly again due to Delta Quadrant tech brought back?) and DaiMon Nandi got ahold of one.

 

[Deks]

Grand Nagus Rom certainly hasn't overhauled Ferengi society in just eight years. There have to be millions of Ferengi males who do what they can to get around Rom's and Zek's earlier decrees and directives giving women more freedom to travel, earn profit and interact in their society.

Given that its a new rule effectively, there would be no law enforcement to stop females from doing just that.
And if some males have an issue with that, they would be met (probably) with a horde of extremely agitated women who could end up causing a LOT of damage.

My point is though that given the distances involved here etc... I think Nandi would have had to been in deep space for a whilw (at least since the Bajoran Wormhole opened).
But her finding her way to the DQ close to the GQ border) is a mystery. But so is the existence of a Kazon in the first episode (and nothing was said thus far to confirm or deny the usage of subspace corridors so these two individuals would be able to get around).

 

[ToddCam]

Its possible that Ferengi as a society have no slavery on their homeworld (well, 'wage/work slavery' is basically the same thing, except its deemed socially acceptable to sell yourself/skills/time for money like it is in the real world - although it REALLY shouldn't be - and quite frankly, Humanity as a society has reached and surpassed the level where we could have eliminated the present system from existence and created a far better one decades ago where money, barter, trade and servitude of any kind DON'T exist), but selling someone INTO slavery for profit to another society that practices it could be allowed... or a proverbial loophole (aka, so long as you don't practice slavery on Ferenginar or in Ferengi society [in the sense of how Ferengi define 'slavery'], you're basically free to do as you please if it brings you profits).

But uhm... Ferengi females were effectively treated as little more than slaves until the Grand Nagus instigated changes so they have the same rights as any other male Ferengi, have they not? They had no real inclusion in society, no voting rights, no ability to wear clothing, no ability to earn profit like any other male Ferengi - but they have also worked in the house, raising kids, cooking, cleaning, etc... much like in the real world, these things aren't perceived as 'valuable' to society, so you effectively do them for nothing (and expend a LOT of time doing them)... and yet, society at the same time very much depends on those things to be done adequately so you can 'perform' as a wage slave in the real world (and also in the fictional Ferengi culture).

Mind you going into this, we brush on the aspect of MOTIVATION - and money is not a good motivating factor for creative tasks... in fact, it can be said that money was NOT the driving force for innovation... its been a hinderance every step of the way when you consider that most technology we have was developed from public entities such as universities and mainly via cooperation (not competition).


Anyway, in case of Ishka compared to Nandi... well, like any other Ferengi female, Nandi probably had every reason to behave as the worst (or should I say 'best') possible Ferengi male. Growing up in that kind of society will do a number on a persons' psyche. Nandi still grew up as part of Ferengi culture, so those 'values' would have been ingrained into her from a very young age and even if she flat out rebelled against the systemic oppression of women in Ferengi culture, other aspects of society such as the rules of acquisition are something she happily (or just because she doesn't know any better) takes up and is able to interpret them any way she wants (no one to enforce a different rule of conduct).

I wouldn't be surprised if Nandi took the Rules to the extreme on more than one occasion... or just used them to suit whatever the situation she found herself in.

I suspect we mostly agree, but our disgusting capitalist system of wages is not slavery. I am trapped in my job due to medical issues and the expense of life otherwise means I have to try and reinsert myself back into the system as soon as possible. In some ways it's similar to slavery. But it is not slavery. To call it that is to minimize what actual people have and still do experience. No one owns me. If I leave my job, no one is going to drag me back to work. I may be forced to through circumstance, and a fucked up system, that we could overcome if we could eliminate the acquisition of wealth as a motivator and pooled our resources, but it's not the same. In the United States, we took an entire race of people and literally named them property, and treated them as such. It does not compare.

 

[Mike McDevitt]

If DaiMon Nandi heard of the admittedly 2000-year-old Phage by legend, rumor or even made the name up herself then this theory doesn’t work, but if she heard of Phage when everyone else did (because of contact with Voyager) then the Phage scam she ran in Dal’s presence or with his help is unlikely to be before 2376 when messages began coming through the MIDAS array. This supposition may place a time frame on Dal’s servitude to Our Diviner.

 

[NCC-73515]

The General Order 1 text was taken from the Federation:The First 150 Years book

https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1481689268561006595

It's also in Franz Joseph's manual, IIRC, but I'm not sure if it's the same text

 

[Tuskin38]

Nandi is apparently a Ferengi word heard in the Ferengi Enterprise episode, it means 'excellent'

 

[Charles Phipps]

I don't think criticism about the Prime Directive is limited to Janeway. I think Kirk was much worse. All Trek captains are hypocritical as plot demands. I think obsessive devotion to that guiding principle is the greater wrong. Picard acted like a slave to it so much as to think extinction is preferable to interfering in an alien culture. Whatever 'natural' development a people has it's surely much worse if the culture dies when those who can help don't.

To be fair, The Prime Directive in Kirk's time is not meant to be something that doesn't have caveats. In the case of a civilization about to be destroyed or enslaved by computers or gods, you could intervene. Which is a much better handling of it. So excluding those, Kirk didn't actually break it that many times.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Rule of Acquisition #111: Treat people in your debt like family...exploit them.

So it would seem that Nandi selling out Dal would be par for the course in Ferengi society, regardless of biology.

(So much for the "Ferengi never practice slavery" argument, eh?)

That being said, it is aksi possible that Nandi - being female - feels obligated to out-Ferengi the Ferengi. Meaning, she tries extra hard to keep to Ferengi traditions, kind of like Worf trying especially hard to act Klingon because he wasn't raised as one. So while most Ferengi parents might not openly sell out their kids (it seems clear that Ishka, for example, would never have done that with Quark or Rom, because their family was a loving one), Nandi feels justified in doing so because she has something to prove.

Ferengi explicitly don't practice slavery according to Quark. They practice wage slavery but not actual chattel slavery So Nandi is actually someone even other Ferengi would consider to be scum.

But I admit, I like it whenever a cultural taboo is broken by a race other than humans or Klingons. It makes them feel more real.

I don't think she's going to be a character used to express some deep insight into Ferengi culture but be someone genuinely irredeemable like Duras is to the Klingons.

 

[AnimationAdmiral]

But I admit, I like it whenever a cultural taboo is broken by a race other than humans or Klingons. It makes them feel more real.

I don't think she's going to be a character used to express some deep insight into Ferengi culture but be someone genuinely irredeemable like Duras is to the Klingons.

Totally agree. Claiming one Ferengi is supposed to represent the behavior of their entire species is problematic, to say the least. There are bad Admirals, but that doesn’t make all of Starfleet corrupt. Nandi is a bad person, and Dal is proof that nature and nurture doesn’t preclude him from choosing to be better.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Ferengi explicitly don't practice slavery according to Quark.

And as we've seen how most Ferengi women are treated, Quark is obviously full of shit.

 

[Deks]

And as we've seen how most Ferengi women are treated, Quark is obviously full of shit.

From our perspective? Yes. From the perspective of your typical Ferengi male at the time? Probably not.
The Ferengi thought it was perfectly acceptable at how Ferengi females were treated... and because the males are in positions of power, they got to write the laws in question.
So, the way the Ferengi defined it, its not slavery... and that would have been described as part of their culture.

In fact, we've mostly seen how Ferengi males have constantly been in amazement (and disgust) of seeing clothed females in the Federation (or in close ties with the UFP) during TNG.... but as the series progressed, this notion faded (also, it didn't make much sense the Ferengi would have reacted that way... because they were FTL capable and encountered many other species, they would have likely encountered other clothed females of other species long before their encounter with the ENT-D/ or NX-01)... or its possible this was a particular 'breed' of Ferengi... fresh young ones out in the Galaxy who had no information on UFP females apart from rumors.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

From the perspective of your typical Ferengi male at the time? Probably not.
The Ferengi thought it was perfectly acceptable

They were wrong.

 

[Deks]

They were wrong.

The Ferengi would probably disagree.

 

[ToyBoxComix]

With regards to the current location of the Protostar, see this interview with writer Aaron J. Waltke:
https://trekmovie.com/2022/01/06/in...bayashi-and-whats-next-for-star-trek-prodigy/

I don’t know if they’re actually in the Gamma Quadrant, but they are–gosh, how do I say this without spoiling anything?–they were going towards the Gamma Quadrant. I can tell you definitively that Tars Lamora is on the border of the Delta Quadrant and the Beta Quadrant. So they were kind of going along the border, if that makes sense, riding the border between the Delta and Beta Quadrants, toward the galactic center.

That means they're pretty close to the center of the galaxy. Star Trek has always been very vague about galactic geography, but they're plausibly within normal warp travel range of most known Alpha Quadrant species. And they might run into God!

 

[Deks]

With regards to the current location of the Protostar, see this interview with writer Aaron J. Waltke:
https://trekmovie.com/2022/01/06/in...bayashi-and-whats-next-for-star-trek-prodigy/



That means they're pretty close to the center of the galaxy. Star Trek has always been very vague about galactic geography, but they're plausibly within normal warp travel range of most known Alpha Quadrant species. And they might run into God!

Even being near the galactic core (but at the Delta-Gamma quadrant border - and in the Delta Quadrant) would still take them DECADES to reach Earth at say Warp 9.
Earth alone is some 26000 Ly's away from the Galactic core... but UFP spans across 8000 Ly's in late 24th century (probably more by 2383)... so, the Protostar is still a good way away from UFP space... however, they might be meeting species that heard of the UFP more frequently than not.

Although if anything, I'd say the kids have higher chances of meeting Neelix and his Talaxian friends. Ah that would be cool to see animated Neelix interacting with holo Janeway.