Moiraine teaching Egwene to embrace the One Power in Episode 2 and her statement that the wind listens to Egwene is entirely predicated on Moiraine knowing three things: 1) That 'listening to the wind' is Channeling (she learns this during her pool cave confrontation with Nynaeve) 2) That Nynaeve herself knows how to 'listen to the wind' (which is not outright said, but is all but confirmed by Nynaeve's story about the former Wisdom's ability to Channel and the knowledge that Nynaeve was raised and trained by said Wisdom, which Moiraine makes reference to during that same pool cave confrontation) 3) That Nynaeve is training Egwene to 'listen to the wind' herself (something we don't see her learn onscreen, but that she would have had to have learned at some point before the Winternight attack) Furthermore, Sarah Nakamura, a book consultant on the series, revealed that, within the version of the WoT world that the TV show is establishing, a woman's ability to Channel cannot be sensed unless they are actively touching saidar, meaning that Moiraine's conversation with Egwene absolutely could not have occurred without Moiraine knowing that both Egwene and the absent Nynaeve could 'listen to the wind' (Channel) just like the Wisdom who raised and trained Nynaeve, thus invalidating any and all subsequent claims of ignorance about Nynaeve being able to Channel on Moiraine's part as being covered by Ads Sedai double-speak.
She suspected it. This would not be proof, either for Moiraine or the viewer, it is suspicion based on assumption. Again assumption. Assumption can sometimes end up being correct, but in itself is not proof. Moiraine needed proof. When we go hiking, I've taught my kids to know when a storm is coming, and when it is about to break, from the direction of the wind and the colour and motion of the clouds. That doesn't make me psychic. Moreover... Spoiler Perrin and Matt's abilities come from being Ta'veren, not from channeling. There are other powers in the world, such as the Horn of Valere and Shadar Logoth, as Moiraine surely knows.]
I had assumed that in this adaption Aes Sedai couldn't tell if a person has the inborn spark by just being around them (that's a book thing). But we also know that Aes Sedai can speak something and not break the oath's if they believe what they are saying when they say it. For example, Morraine telling Lan that, "he's killed them all". She believes it at that moment, even though it absolutely isn't a factual statement. And at a later date, Morraine could say she didn't know and only suspected, and that would work with the three oaths. Clearly Morraine believes that Nyneave, Eqwene, Rand, Matt and Perrin all have the possibility to channel. She also believed them to be 5 candidates for being the Dragon Reborn. She quickly changed her mind with Nyneave, when she is told how old she is. And she changes her mind again once she shows how much potential she actually has. Nyneave simply saying she is wisdom, or listens to the winds doesn't mean that Nyneave or Egwene (for that matter) could channel (not all wisdoms can, and they still at least in the book still use the term listening to the wind). Just like Logain can say he's the Dragon Reborn, it doesn't make it fact. Alanna says he must be the Dragon, well that statement isn't factual. But she believed it when she said it. She can also say he isn't later. She could also say that she didn't know, but believed it was possible. All those things will pass mustard with the three Oaths.
Within the context of the TV show, it does. Moiraine's pool cave confrontation with Nynaeve does three things: The first thing that this confrontation does is that it establishes Nynaeve's age, which allows Moraine to (prematurely) rule her out as a possible candidate for the Dragon Reborn. The second thing that it does is that it gives Moiraine knowledge that isn't important at the time, but that becomes important later: the fact that, for the former Wisdom of the Two Rivers and, consequently for Nynaeve, who was raised and trained by the former Wisodm, 'listening to the wind' is active use of the One Power, which is established through Nynaeve's angrily-revealed story about the former Wisdom knowing she could Channel and going to Tar Valon at the age of 13, only to be rejected. The third thing that it does is that it provides both context and pretext for Moraine to approach Egwene and directly teach her how to access the One Power, which is an important decision for Moiraine to make because it represents her determining that, of the four young people she's identified as potential Dragons Reborn, she believes Egwene to be the most likely person to actually be the Dragon Reborn, which is a determination that she could not have made without the knowledge she gleaned from the pool cave confrontation with Nynaeve and knowledge about Egwene specifically that she had to have gleaned from other people before the Winternight attack.
Actually in doesn't necessarily do that, or at least not to an absolute degree, which is my primary point all alone. Morraine looks for anyone sh believe s to be 20 when she arrives. Since she is learned about lands and customs, she would know about wisdoms. So yes I do agree on your first point about which s about establishing the age of Nyneave, and thus removing her from consideration. The 2nd point isn't so cut and dry. Nyneave believes the previous Wisdom was turned away from the tower because she was poor. We see a few episodes later that Suan was poor, and she by all appearances seem to not have any such problems gaining acceptance into the tower and training. Per Logain we learn the tower is weaker then its ever been, and I believed him. It doesn't seem rational that the tower would reject someone on their looks of being poor. Thus Nyneave's statements might not be factual. Perhaps her mentor thought she listened to the winds, but in fact never did. Not being able to touch the source, or not being able to channel would be cause to be rejected from the tower. Is it possible that her Mentor misrepresented herself? It is. Is it possible that Nyneave was never told why she was rejected, and made assumptions? Yes. Is it possible that she wasn't rejected, but at some point decided that this life wasn't for her, and made some excuse about it? Who knows. At this point we don't know if in this story all Wisdoms can channel. That's a huge factor, in the books many can't but still claim that they can listen to the wind. And if all Wisdom's can channel, how do they pick their apprentice? Do they know that they can as well? Nyneave already offered Egwene the position, before she tried to get her to listen to the winds. We see no visual evidence of channeling, but we do hear sounds..... But again Egwene was offered the job before this. Or do Wisdom's pick someone who has a natural affinity to herbs, healing, and learning? Who knows. Morraine would have reason to suspect that they have the possibility to channel, absolutely. Even if both Nyneave and the previous Wisdom could channel, Nyneave stating it, isn't again proof. But it s a steeping stone for Morraine. As for part three, her just suspecting Egwene could channel would be cause to test her. But why her and no other. Well in the show, Egwene is the most trusting of Egwene, she openly defends her. She is a woman. Now we don't know if int he show, a woman can teach a man. But even if she can, she has a legitimate reason not to. Once a man touches the source, the madness starts to grow. With a women this isn't a factor. So ideally teaching a man (if possible) would be delayed as long as it was possible to allow your "Dragon" if a man a chance to keep most of his sanity up until the end of the last battle. You wouldn't want to start it, and find out he goes mad before the endgame so to speak. And all of these can be supported on just the belief that they might be able to touch the source. Not on having absolute knowledge of it. Again since the show has had several passages about them not knowing everything, and having doubts about so many things, I since she does twice make comments indicated she didn't know, but suspected for Nyneave, I thank you really have to go with the show. The only other option is two fold, thank the writer are often making errors in how they right her dialogue, or that she isn't bound by the three oaths some how....
And the real point is, no one here is arguing that we believe Morraine din't think Nyneave and Egwene can channel. I thank we all thank she thought they could. Strongly believed. Strongly believed enough that she could say what she did to Egwene in the forrest without breaking the three oaths. And why she could tell Lan, that, "he's killed them all." at the end of that same episode and not break the three oaths. But believing something to be true isn't the same thing as witnessing the factual reality of it. She got that from Egwene with the testing. She got that with Nyneave when Nyneave healed everyone. That's plenty of room for an Aes Sedai to maneuver around so that one can speak and not break the three oaths. That's the whole point.
What this whole thing ultimately comes down to is that I do not believe that Moiraine's statement about being unaware that Nynaeve could channel is valid based on the visual record of events as chronicled and reject the notion that Aes Sedai double-speak should have been applicable.
So we're at episode 7. The penultimate episode of first season. Will spoiler since it just came out hours ago. Spoiler The opening was fantastic. Seeing the snow and mountain and a red haired woman I knew who it was and seeing her fighting ability even while about to give birth was impressive. I feel like the change from the books to the series was a bit of a softer ending for Rand's mother. In the books she actually gives birth and dies and Rand's "adoptive" Father comes upon the baby later. At least here she knows she's found someone with compassion and dies believing her baby has a chance. I knew Min had been cast for S1, but I had forgotten and actually hadn't expected to see her at this town guarding the Blight just because she was shifted to a different point in the storyline. Her being in this specific town versus where she was in the books ultimately isn't a huge deal and it was important for Moiriane to get the visions read and then Rand to get his final push. The "reveal" of Rand using the one power and showing what actually 'happened' in past scenes, but us as the viewer not actually seeing it was certainly an attempt to keep the 'who is the dragon reborn?' guessing with viewers since had it been shown when it happened it would have pretty much stopped the guessing game. Lan finally reveals some of who he is and you can see where the Aragorn type comparisons come from. Stoic/heroic great fighter, descended from a ruling family and heir to a throne, in a fellowship with a 'wizard' to gather some unlikely young 'heroes' in order to stop the re-emergence of the dark one. I'm wondering just what type of season finale we are getting next week because it really seems like there's a lot more to tell/happen to get to a real cliffhanger/conclusion point in the plot.
That pregnant woman was indeed a badass. I knew it was Rand’s mother simply from the red hair. I hope we find out more about her and why she was fighting those troops. Seems rather irresponsible of her too. She’s lucky that stab didn’t kill the baby.
I appreciated the flashbacks to events we have already witnessed but getting more detail. It very much reminded me of Morraine telling that person she suspected it because of how Bela was able to keep up with real conditioned horses, and how Bela didn't need to have her exhaustion blocked, because someone had already done it.
I also want to had that while I don't really love the kind of triangle shown here, realistically it very much would happen and often. With an isolated community of hundreds were most don't ever travel far from home, the dating pool of people even remotely close to your age is going to be limited. Many would have feelings for someone that didn't share those feelings. And they would eventually settle for another. With of course the ope that contentment if not attraction or love would grow between them. It would be extremely common.
Review for episode 7 - mild episode spoilers above, book spoilers below. Spoiler: episode The episode is a roller coaster in terms of pacing, with the epic flashback to Rand's birth mother Tigraine, the encounter with Machin Shin and the Dragon's reveal on one hand, and much more quiet Lan/Nynaeve story and Min's introduction on the other. I'd rather expected to see us spending more time in the Ways, given that this journey takes much more time in the books and the Ways themselves are an important concept to the later story. The series continues its trend for making impressive set pieces that are not used for very long. Though... it's difficult to judge how this segment, or the whole episode, would have turned out if Barney Harris hadn't left the cast before it was filmed. Mat's absense probably meant a lot of it had to be rewritten, though I feel the writers managed to make the most of what they had by actively having his departure cause issues between Rand and Egwene, and also by giving Moiraine a reason not to go back for him. We also get Lan's backstory, straight from the books, in a way that felt natural and well-timed, given that he is now as close as he can get to his homeland and remaining people, without going into the Blight proper. His relationship with Nynaeve is progressing rather quickly, but I can certainly get this from the "we're all going to die tomorrow" vibe now hanging over the party. Egwene's smirk the morning after is also a very nice moment between the two women. Other than that, this is Rand's big episode. I applaud the showrunners for choosing to introduce Min, likely our final recurring character this season, at this point as she ties in well with the overall Dragon reveal and will be important to Rand going foward. Giving them a scene by themselves was a smart move. The choice to keep the Dragon's identity ambiguous up to this point is one that I was always concerned for, as the readers might get worried about possible changes and the new fans will require a good payoff to sell the character to them when the reveal does come. Combining it with the epic flashback of Tigraine vs. the Illianer soldiers at the start, as well as including part of Tam's unintended confessions to Rand in a flashback to episode 1, feels like it did that well, at least to me. But it will be interesting to see how the non-readers react to it. I am also once again very impressed with the set and costume departments. Tigraine and the soldiers in the teaser look wonderful, both in contrast and by themselves. The addition of the nine bees on the soldiers' armor is also a great nod to the book fans, who will recognize this as the symbol of Illian, despite the fact that that country hasn't really been mentioned yet. The nobles in Fal Dara sporting feathers and feather motifs in their garb is likewise a nice call to the fact that their country has a hawk as its sigil, and they have their traditional top knots from the books as well. And Fal Dara itself is suitably impressive as a "this city is meant to hold at all costs" design, all bulwarks on the outside and relatively plain and muted on the inside, at least when compared to Tar Valon. I am very, very pleased with these. In fact, I am going to go as far as saying that there were only 2 parts in this episode I did not like. The whole Perrin/Egwene thing (eh, is this going anywhere, like, at all?!), and the depiction of lord Agelmar. But more on that below. Book progess so far: book 1 chapter 1-47 (and a few bits from book 2). Rating: 4 Borderlands out of 5 (Tai'shar Malkier!). Spoiler: books Book comparisons... timing aside, a lot of the basics are covered this week. Right from the start, where Rand's birth is taken straight from the books, with the minor edit of Tam finding Tigraine alive in her last moments. I've watched a few reaction videos, and it seems everyone, new and old fans alike, *loves* how the show has decided to introduce the incredible martial talent of the Aeil through this scene, where one cloth-clad, heavily pregnant woman manages to mostly beat a whole squad of heavily armored men. It bodes very well for what is yet to come. And kudos to the stunt woman who depicted Tigraine, who sold it all to us without speaking a single word. Then we have the Ways, where we spend comparatively little time. They look a bit different, with the basalt formations and the lack of verticality, but really the only thing that really needed to be there for them to function is "it's dark, and what ever you do, don't fall off". The slippery stonework certainly helps sell that. Loial has an all too brief moment showing his skill in reading the guiding, but as this only happens once, I feel his presence could have been made a bit more crucial. I do like the change to Machin Shin though. There is a danger of it becoming too similar to the also voiceless evil of Mashadar earlier, and here it was actively used to further the plot rather than just be a thing to run away from. And then we come to Fal Dara. I'd like to know why the change to the personalities of lord Agelmar and lady Amalisa was made, given that in the books they fawn over Moiraine to the point of reverence, all formality and "honor to the Aes Sedai". Introducing Amalisa as a White Tower-trainee who was not able to become a full sister raises interesting questions with regards to the story of Morgase. Is it being moved here because Morgase will be cut from there series? But then, why is it important to learn at this point that there are Tower-trained women who are not Aes Sedai? It is not as if there are many women who end up falling into that category, at least none of note other than Morgase. We'll have to see where that goes. Setup for the inclusion of the Kin seems a bit early, at any rate, and I never really suspected them to play any role of significance in the show to begin with. We also finally get Moiraine's encounter with Min, and her "request" to learn what she can see about the Emond's Fielders, though much later than in the books where this takes place early on, in Baerlon. Min feels very on point - snarky, independent and yet still unable to resist Moiraine. I like what Kae Alexander is doing with her role and her presence here fits in seemlessly with the story. Finally, some random comments as I've already rambled enough. Lots of book fans will likely be pleased that we still got part of the thing we missed in episode 1: Rand's journey back to the village after the Winternight attack, and the woundridden, delirious Tam's confession that Rand is not his biological child. I fully understand it being moved here, as it would have given the game away too soon. And why were the horses left behind last week? Well, because they can't fit into the Ways. And they can't fit into the Blight either. That final redesign will take some getting used to, but as with the Ways, I can accept it. All it really needs to be is corrupted and evil looking, and it certainly is that.
So is the beginning of episode 8 the reason this is classed as sci fi? Looked very futuristic there. Maybe what they’re changing isn’t magic but some unknown futuristic power which is explained by science. I enjoyed but it’s very Star Wars. The Dark One wasn’t I imagined him to be. Reminded me of Eric Cantana in the way he looked and spoke. I liked that his clothing looked more modern. Makes him stand out more. I believe season 2 is well underway which is good as an article on IGN today said that Amazon wants to adapt every book of the series. Even the prequels. Considering there are 14 books, and they only span 2 and a half years, they better get a move on. Maybe they should have 2 seasons per year.
Boy howdy that was easily the worst episode of the series to date. I will start with positive's I actually did enjoy almost all of the Rand and Morraine scenes. I like Rand's temptation scene, and I like some of the "Dark One" scenes. But I didn't care for the actor playing the dark one, which hurt the effectiveness of those scenes he is in. As for the rest of the episode, in general I thought it was a bit of a hot mess.
My initial gut reaction is the same. Liking the Rand/Moiraine things, but the whole Tarwin's Gap / Fal Dara fight sequence... I am not a fan. Well, except maybe for the Padan Fain, Perrin and Horn of Valere things. You can tell Mat was supposed to be there for these, but Fain works well in this and him just suddenly appearing with the Fades is suitably chilling. I find him a more engaging adversary than actor playing the "Dark One". For the rest... it is situations like these where I begin suspecting character development have been sacrificed just to have a big epic fight scene, and that will never be something I approve of even if the fight scene is amazing. I also was not a huge fan of the portrayal of the "Dark One" as a fairly average Joe. I know it is a bit in character to have the Big Bads of the series have rather mundane origins, but that's origins. I'd have expected more flashy theatrics. It's not as if the book finale is all that great, but I don't feel the show did itself any favours here.
I've only seen it referred to as fantasy, but a lot of places kind of put sci-fi and fantasy together, so that might have been all it was. Yeah, I've been wondering about that too. I have feeling they might just start condensing things down to do multiple books a season. From what I've read about the books, it sounds like there are a lot of side stories as the series gets going, so I could see a lot of those getting cut, and they start going into every tiny detail about everything, so just not having to do that is going to save a lot of time. I thought it was a pretty good finale. I do agree the Dark One was kind of underwhelming, the actor just really wasn't as intimidating as you would expect someone called The Dark One to be. Padan Fain showing up with the Fades was a nice twist. Egwene, Nynaeve, and the other women channeling and wiping out the Trullocs was pretty cool. I thought for second there Nynaeve might actually stay dead, but I wasn't surprised Egwene brought her back, since she's one of the book series' main characters. The big battle wasn't too bad, it definitely wasn't Helm's Deep, but it was still fairly exciting. Moiraine being cut off from The Source was a shock. The flashback at the beginning was interesting, it was definitely more futuristic than I expected. I know the book mentioned flying machines at one point, but I had just imagined a modern city with airplanes, not the futuristic city with hovercraft or whatever those were, we saw here.
I'll put this in spoilers it's not a huge book spoiler, but I found it odd that Lews Therin was called 'Dragon Reborn' Spoiler It was a little odd that in the opening Lews Therin was referred to as the "Dragon Reborn" because while 'his soul' has been reincarnated many times prior to being Lews Therin it was in that life he first was called 'The Dragon'. So Rand is the first 'Dragon Reborn'. I'm going to assume Nynaeve was 'almost really close to being dead and not quite completely dead' because to allow the One Power to bring someone completely back to life is a huge change. It probably would have made more sense for the person showing uber-healing skills to be the one to use them, but I guess they felt the need to show Egwene was strong in the One Power.
Same here. It stands to reason that the people in the Age of Legends are aware the 'champion of good' exists and there was one before Lews as well, but not with that particular title... And here is my traditional review, with episode spoilers above and book spoilers below. Spoiler: episode 8 Mmm. Some good character moments but overall... this episode left me feeling a bit deflated. I'll be the first to say that the finale of the first book isn't amazing. Given that the actual Eye is being presented very differently from the books, I am not surprised by the amount of changes to the story but... it felt so uneven in the editing. Again. The cold open being told entirely in the Old Tongue and being all talk of things we're not going to see is a good example of that. It's my least favourite of the teasers so far. And there are so many amazing moments from Lews Therin's life that could have worked well here. It's the start of an episode that for me at least is filled with 'they chose to focus on THAT?' moments. The episode is split between essentially 3 stories: Rand and Moiraine, Egwene and Nynaeve, and Amalisa and Agelmar. Perrin's role is limited, and is basically just there for setting up season 2 at the end. After the credits, I kind of liked it up to the point where the alarms of Fal Dara go off. Min continues to be great, showing here how her ability is a burden to her, because of all the terrible fates for people she can see. Egwene and Perrin reconnecting after the previous night's spat was welcome and from the way the dialogue went, I'm almost starting to believe that the love triangle is running in a different direction for Perrin here (we'll not starting worrying about the lore until they cast his "falcon" with a man, lol). I think the things we got with Rand and Moiraine were mostly in tone with the original story. The subtle hints of Rand finally beginning to understand Moiraine's actions... the unanswered questions and looks between them told a lot without the need for dialogue, so kudos to the actors for that. But the rest... I don't know. Battle scenes might look impressive, but they don't do much for the characters here. Nynaeve and Egwene are basically relegated to being storage batteries and oddly it's Perrin in his few short scenes who seems to have the most development. I can't comment much on that without going into book 2 spoilers, so more on that below. The time invested with Amalisa and Agelmar also feels somewhat wasted, as both are apparently unceremoniously killed off. Their actions parallel the earlier story of the fall of Manetheren, but I'm not sure that means much for the ongoing narrative. The addition of the Karene and Stepin storyline I ended up appreciating quite a bit, for it served multiple purposes, mirroring Lan and Moiraine and also telling us about Aes Sedai/Warders in general. I don't feel the same about the new content here. It's not a bad idea per se, and does showcase the mentality of the Borderlands, but there are other things I'd have chosen to focus on. And we also have to ask if 5 untrained / too weak to become Aes Sedai women can save a city by themselves... what do we need Rand for anyway? Book progress: Book 1 completed + book 2 chapters 1-7 (approx.). Rating: 2 out of 5 surviving women. (Sorry for the lore changes ladies, you should have survived that.) Spoiler: books (right up to the last one!) Book comparisons... well. We have our work cut out for us today, there are SO many changes. Starting with the basics, the journey from Fal Dara to the Eye is shown, but it is much, much shorter and only undertaken by Moiraine, Rand, and later Lan. The Eye itself keeps only its name, as it is not presented as a the ultimate refuge, but as the Dark One's prison. (Talk about changing things...) The fight against 2 of the Forsaken is omitted, and we instead are presented with a battle of wills between Rand and the "Dark One", with the small sa'angreal taking over the role of the actual Eye as the pool of Power for Rand to draw on. This part borrows more from the final confrontation between Rand and Moridin in the last book than it does their meeting in the first book, and we are also denied Rand's actions being presented to the world, as he does not appear over the army fighting in Tarwin's Gap to save it. There are some nods to the books though, as his fictional daughter by Egwene has the same name as she has in the books (when it is Egwene presented with a vision of this future during her testing in the Tower) and there is also the first mention of cuendillar, though it is not immediately recognized as one of the seals on the Dark One's prison. Finally, this plot ends with Rand going off solo, a bit reminiscent of his actions at the start of book 3, and Moiraine being what appears to be permanently shielded (not stilled, as we see Ishamael put the same weave on her as is put on Logain in episode 4). This is a huge departure from the books, but likely will serve to give Moiraine a story arc for season 2, as in book 2 she is largely absent from the proceedings. It is an odd choice, but will go onto the "judge when we get an idea of where they go with it" pile. The battle at Tarwin's Gap, located much closer to Fal Dara now, starts off mostly identical to the books, with Lord Agelmar rallying his forces for what he believes to be a futile attempt to stop the Trolloc horde. The story then departs from the books, with it being Amalisa and her group of channelers who save the city with the Power instead of Rand, with Agelmar and his troops apparently dying instead of being saved. Neither Agelmar nor Amalisa have large roles in the books, but their deaths here are certainly a departure from the lore. Other departures are visible during the Power battle scene, with Nynaeve seemingly having no problems linking with Amalisa and later apparently being healed from the brink of death by Egwene. Both instances imply a skill that these characters do not learn until much later into the series. Finally, we have the reveal of the Horn of Valere. With the changes made to the Eye, we do not find it there but instead in storage at Fal Dara, and much like in the books, Fain comes to steal it from its vault. In another departure, possibly to cover Barney Harris's departure, Loial is stabbed with the dagger, likely to serve as a catalyst for Perrin wanting to go and track down Fain and the dagger in season 2. The episode ends with a teaser for season 2 and the reveal of the Seanchan invasion fleet, with a pair of damane being instructed to create a tidal wave by a pair of sul'dam. Possibly in some sort of ceremony, given that it feels a bit much for ruining the day of a little girl picking seashells. The Seanchan invasion happens off-page in the books, but timing and location are accurate. A lot of fans are speculating Falme will be dropped and we are going straight to Tear in season 2, but the location card - the first of the series - seems to dispell that idea.