• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The Wheel of Time on Amazon Prime

I also was not a huge fan of the portrayal of the "Dark One" as a fairly average Joe.
But I didn't care for the actor playing the dark one, which hurt the effectivenessof those scenes he is in.
I'm surprised you both find it notable since...
...we know it was actually Ishmael. I thought it made sense within the show to have this "Dark One" be a bit... underwhelming, since he will at some point be revealed to be a poseur. The real thing will be all the more climactic.
Same here. It stands to reason that the people in the Age of Legends are aware the 'champion of good' exists and there was one before Lews as well, but not with that particular title...

And here is my traditional review, with episode spoilers above and book spoilers below.

Mmm. Some good character moments but overall... this episode left me feeling a bit deflated. I'll be the first to say that the finale of the first book isn't amazing. Given that the actual Eye is being presented very differently from the books, I am not surprised by the amount of changes to the story but... it felt so uneven in the editing. Again. The cold open being told entirely in the Old Tongue and being all talk of things we're not going to see is a good example of that. It's my least favourite of the teasers so far. And there are so many amazing moments from Lews Therin's life that could have worked well here. It's the start of an episode that for me at least is filled with 'they chose to focus on THAT?' moments.

The episode is split between essentially 3 stories: Rand and Moiraine, Egwene and Nynaeve, and Amalisa and Agelmar. Perrin's role is limited, and is basically just there for setting up season 2 at the end. After the credits, I kind of liked it up to the point where the alarms of Fal Dara go off. Min continues to be great, showing here how her ability is a burden to her, because of all the terrible fates for people she can see. Egwene and Perrin reconnecting after the previous night's spat was welcome and from the way the dialogue went, I'm almost starting to believe that the love triangle is running in a different direction for Perrin here (we'll not starting worrying about the lore until they cast his "falcon" with a man, lol). I think the things we got with Rand and Moiraine were mostly in tone with the original story. The subtle hints of Rand finally beginning to understand Moiraine's actions... the unanswered questions and looks between them told a lot without the need for dialogue, so kudos to the actors for that.

But the rest... I don't know. Battle scenes might look impressive, but they don't do much for the characters here. Nynaeve and Egwene are basically relegated to being storage batteries and oddly it's Perrin in his few short scenes who seems to have the most development. I can't comment much on that without going into book 2 spoilers, so more on that below. The time invested with Amalisa and Agelmar also feels somewhat wasted, as both are apparently unceremoniously killed off. Their actions parallel the earlier story of the fall of Manetheren, but I'm not sure that means much for the ongoing narrative. The addition of the Karene and Stepin storyline I ended up appreciating quite a bit, for it served multiple purposes, mirroring Lan and Moiraine and also telling us about Aes Sedai/Warders in general. I don't feel the same about the new content here. It's not a bad idea per se, and does showcase the mentality of the Borderlands, but there are other things I'd have chosen to focus on. And we also have to ask if 5 untrained / too weak to become Aes Sedai women can save a city by themselves... what do we need Rand for anyway?

Book progress: Book 1 completed + book 2 chapters 1-7 (approx.). Rating: 2 out of 5 surviving women. (Sorry for the lore changes ladies, you should have survived that.)

Book comparisons... well. We have our work cut out for us today, there are SO many changes. Starting with the basics, the journey from Fal Dara to the Eye is shown, but it is much, much shorter and only undertaken by Moiraine, Rand, and later Lan. The Eye itself keeps only its name, as it is not presented as a the ultimate refuge, but as the Dark One's prison. (Talk about changing things...) The fight against 2 of the Forsaken is omitted, and we instead are presented with a battle of wills between Rand and the "Dark One", with the small sa'angreal taking over the role of the actual Eye as the pool of Power for Rand to draw on. This part borrows more from the final confrontation between Rand and Moridin in the last book than it does their meeting in the first book, and we are also denied Rand's actions being presented to the world, as he does not appear over the army fighting in Tarwin's Gap to save it. There are some nods to the books though, as his fictional daughter by Egwene has the same name as she has in the books (when it is Egwene presented with a vision of this future during her testing in the Tower) and there is also the first mention of cuendillar, though it is not immediately recognized as one of the seals on the Dark One's prison. Finally, this plot ends with Rand going off solo, a bit reminiscent of his actions at the start of book 3, and Moiraine being what appears to be permanently shielded (not stilled, as we see Ishamael put the same weave on her as is put on Logain in episode 4). This is a huge departure from the books, but likely will serve to give Moiraine a story arc for season 2, as in book 2 she is largely absent from the proceedings. It is an odd choice, but will go onto the "judge when we get an idea of where they go with it" pile.

The battle at Tarwin's Gap, located much closer to Fal Dara now, starts off mostly identical to the books, with Lord Agelmar rallying his forces for what he believes to be a futile attempt to stop the Trolloc horde. The story then departs from the books, with it being Amalisa and her group of channelers who save the city with the Power instead of Rand, with Agelmar and his troops apparently dying instead of being saved. Neither Agelmar nor Amalisa have large roles in the books, but their deaths here are certainly a departure from the lore. Other departures are visible during the Power battle scene, with Nynaeve seemingly having no problems linking with Amalisa and later apparently being healed from the brink of death by Egwene. Both instances imply a skill that these characters do not learn until much later into the series.

Finally, we have the reveal of the Horn of Valere. With the changes made to the Eye, we do not find it there but instead in storage at Fal Dara, and much like in the books, Fain comes to steal it from its vault. In another departure, possibly to cover Barney Harris's departure, Loial is stabbed with the dagger, likely to serve as a catalyst for Perrin wanting to go and track down Fain and the dagger in season 2.

The episode ends with a teaser for season 2 and the reveal of the Seanchan invasion fleet, with a pair of damane being instructed to create a tidal wave by a pair of sul'dam. Possibly in some sort of ceremony, given that it feels a bit much for ruining the day of a little girl picking seashells. The Seanchan invasion happens off-page in the books, but timing and location are accurate. A lot of fans are speculating Falme will be dropped and we are going straight to Tear in season 2, but the location card - the first of the series - seems to dispell that idea.
Yet again, I agree with you both over all; I felt this would have worked better as two-part or double length episode, which would have allowed it to have a bit more coherence.

ETA: And Merry Christmas to all! I'm still waiting for everyone to wake up. :)
 
Last edited:
I wasn't sure if they were going to do what happens in the book are not, about who Rand is actually facing. I almost put quotations around dark one but I thought that might hint at something.

But the key part stands, that I felt literally no real presence or menace, or even madness... All of which I thought would be a better more dramatic presentation.

Let me clarify one thing, and I hate when I do this. I stated I didn't care for the actor.. I should have stated I didn't like the characterization. The actor might be a be doing a solid job for what is written or for the direction of the scene. I generally try and separate it, unless I know enough of someone's work to see that they are phoning it in, or that I have never liked any of the performances for an actors career.
 
I wasn't sure if they were going to do what happens in the book are not, about who Rand is actually facing. I almost put quotations around dark one but I thought that might hint at something.

But the key part stands, that I felt literally no real presence or menace, or even madness... All of which I thought would be a better more dramatic presentation.

Let me clarify one thing, and I hate when I do this. I stated I didn't care for the actor.. I should have stated I didn't like the characterization. The actor might be a be doing a solid job for what is written or for the direction of the scene. I generally try and separate it, unless I know enough of someone's work to see that they are phoning it in, or that I have never liked any of the performances for an actors career.
The actors/roles are visible on X-Ray. ;)
 
But the key part stands, that I felt literally no real presence or menace, or even madness... All of which I thought would be a better more dramatic presentation.
A few more thoughts on reflection...
The Forsaken males do not suffer madness from using Saidin; the Dark One protects them from it. As to menace, Ishmael is there to tempt Rand, not threaten him. Ideally the Dark One wishes Rand to join, especially at this first point of contact when the choice is still hanging in balance. Likewise, later on, Lanfear is The Temptress, both to Lews Therin in the past and to Rand in the present. The Forsaken are an interesting take on bringing Biblical temptations to life. I wouldn't have expected menace and madness at this point.

Several of the Forsaken were terrifingly horrible, and yet others I found myself eventually liking and hoping for: Asmodean, certainly, and Lanfear somewhat sympathetically.

I respect your dislike for the presentation, but I do feel the interaction between Ishmail and Rand was the spirit of the books.
 
Last edited:
The cold open being told entirely in the Old Tongue and being all talk of things we're not going to see

I think there's a 99% chance we do get to see what happened after that conversation at some point in the series.

I don't have any positive feelings about the WoT novels, so I'm 'just along for the ride' with the TV series and intrigued to see where Rafe and his team take this Turning based on their mishmash approach to adapting the books and the stories that they left unresolved in the finale.
 
Did anyone else have that cold open not subtitled until they went in and turned on closed captions?

I was really confused the first time I watched it how it kept going on and on with no translation.
 
Did anyone else have that cold open not subtitled until they went in and turned on closed captions?

I was really confused the first time I watched it how it kept going on and on with no translation.
Yeah, but it was funny. The first time I watched I had the same experience. When I watched a second time today the subtitles were turned off but I still got the translation.
 
I think there's a 99% chance we do get to see what happened after that conversation at some point in the series.
Oh, I don't doubt that. I just meant that we were not going to see them... it, soon I suppose, at least during this season. I think a lot of us book readers were expecting the scene from book 1 with this particular character, and as such... well, letting go of expectations is an ongoing process. ;)

Did anyone else have that cold open not subtitled until they went in and turned on closed captions?
I got the translation while having cc off. This was while watching via my tv app, not on pc.

In unrelated news, I saw the animated lore shorts are now posted on the series's Explore page. And it looks like we don't have any for episodes 7 and 8. Maybe they decided not to continue them, and this is why there were not promoted much?
 
Did anyone else have that cold open not subtitled until they went in and turned on closed captions?

I was really confused the first time I watched it how it kept going on and on with no translation.
They came up fine for me, and I didn't have the captions on.
I think a lot of us book readers were expecting the scene from book 1 with this particular character, and as such... well, letting go of expectations is an ongoing process. ;)
Would that be the prologue that didn't focus on the Two Rivers kids?
 
A few more thoughts on reflection...
The Forsaken males do not suffer madness from using Saidin; the Dark One protects them from it. As to menace, Ishmael is there to tempt Rand, not threaten him. Ideally the Dark One wishes Rand to join, especially at this first point of contact when the choice is still hanging in balance. Likewise, later on, Lanfear is The Temptress, both to Lews Therin in the past and to Rand in the present. The Forsaken are an interesting take on bringing Biblical temptations to life. I wouldn't have expected menace and madness at this point.

Several of the Forsaken were terrifingly horrible, and yet others I found myself eventually liking and hoping for: Asmodean, certainly, and Lanfear somewhat sympathetically.

I respect your dislike for the presentation, but I do feel the interaction between Ishmail and Rand was the spirit of the books.

Oh its definitely a personal preference.
part of that is bias from the book in that the first forsaken we meet are the two who closest to the barrier and did feel the impact of the eons, unlike the ones that were trapped deeper in the bore, so they were a bit how shall we put it, nuts (one especially so). Now for the show, yes he's there to tempt Rand to make the wrong choice so being crazy wouldn't work, or wouldn't be that effective. But I still never felt that the actor portrayed a compelling, charismatic individual that would help over come months of nightmares about the "Dark one" or even the nightmare presented in this very episode. I can understand teh dismissive, insulted interaction he has with Rand at first, but those two also don't help into the narrative of needing to convince him to go against the nightmares and fears he has had for the months the show has taken place in. To sell that you need someone who's extremely compelling (or someone rather weak willed, and if that is what we are supposed to see Rand has then its more effective then I took it as).

Of course those are minor factors for the episodes, as I stated I thank the Rand and Morraine's scenes were my favorite of the episode, followed likely by Rand, Morraine and the "Dark One" (I still reference the character that way because that is how the people involved in those scenes reference him). And since they are the driving aspect of this episode (and the conflict) a big part of the driving force of the season, I just hold them to a much higher standard than the bulk of the scenes from the episode. And I wanted them to be as solid as possible. A Great performance can really help cover up weakness in other aspects of a production, and the ending (in the book and in the show) isn't exceptionally strong.
 
The Wheel of Time season 2 release date, cast, plot and everything you need to know

A bit misleading article title, since they only have a best guess of "spring or summer 2022." Still, a nice article that includes an interesting observation from Rafe:
"Loial is not dead. He is alive and well and shooting in Prague. I wanted people to be a little on their toes, because real deaths are coming for characters that don't die in the books. We have to, because we can't hold 2,000 series regulars through multiple seasons. It's coming, and I want people to emotionally prepare themselves. The thought that Loial might be gone will hopefully start to get people emotionally prepared, but I couldn't. He's my favourite."
 
The Wheel of Time season 2 release date, cast, plot and everything you need to know

A bit misleading article title, since they only have a best guess of "spring or summer 2022." Still, a nice article that includes an interesting observation from Rafe:
"Loial is not dead. He is alive and well and shooting in Prague. I wanted people to be a little on their toes, because real deaths are coming for characters that don't die in the books. We have to, because we can't hold 2,000 series regulars through multiple seasons. It's coming, and I want people to emotionally prepare themselves. The thought that Loial might be gone will hopefully start to get people emotionally prepared, but I couldn't. He's my favourite."

I kinda think that Siuan will die. They gave her a closer relationship to Moiraine so that has impact on her character...

Book spoiler
Plus I think that relationship likely negates one that plays out in the books between her and Gareth...
 
I kinda think that Siuan will die. They gave her a closer relationship to Moiraine so that has impact on her character...

Book spoiler
Plus I think that relationship likely negates one that plays out in the books between her and Gareth...
I agree, that would be a big impact, but I could see it fitting right in without affecting the main story. Although...
if they kill Min I will track them down and punch them numerous times.
 
^^
Siuan dying early would raise the question of who will teach Egwene at Salidar though. My bet for a character to die will likely be Morgase. Her plot is not popular in the books, and cutting it still allows for the Andorian succession crisis to unfold as normal for Elayne. There's also a good chance some of the secondary characters will be sacrificed along the way. Returning to the topic of Siuan, I can see Leane not surviving the tower split, for example.
 
Have they said any more about why Barney Harris is being replaced? Nobody seemed to be saying much when they announced that he wasn't coming back.
 
Have they said any more about why Barney Harris is being replaced? Nobody seemed to be saying much when they announced that he wasn't coming back.
What I've read is that the series production paused due to COVID just before filming the last episode or two. The cast was away for months until things started up again. During that time away Harris decided not to return. My feeling is that it had nothing to do with the show, and the show runners are respecting his privacy.
 
^^ There have been some casting announcements and leaks. Last I heard, they were filming episodes 7 and 8 but we don't have an estimated release date yet.

The last rumor I heard was that the character of Elyas had been cast for season 2, thought this is unconfirmed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 777
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top