Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[DigificWriter]

Quote? Link?

https://mobile.twitter.com/karterhol/status/982283786745331712?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^982283786745331712|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/07/fear-itself-cover-revealed-star-trek-discovery-writer-addresses-tie-in-canon-question/

Thus far, nothing has come up that renders The Enterprise War's events non-Canonical by contradicting them.

 

[Nerys Myk]

https://mobile.twitter.com/karterhol/status/982283786745331712?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^982283786745331712|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/07/fear-itself-cover-revealed-star-trek-discovery-writer-addresses-tie-in-canon-question/

Thus far, nothing has come up that renders The Enterprise War's events non-Canonical by contradicting them.

That was his opinion, not an official announcement. I don't think Sullivan is even with the show anymore.

 

[Skywalker]

This isn't Star Wars, the books don't count. And even in SW they can (and have) changed things on-screen when they've felt the need to.

 

[Danja]

That was his opinion, not an official announcement.

If it was official, it would be coming from Alex Kurtzman & Co.

 

[captainkirk]

Several of the “canon” Discovery novels were contradicted almost immediately by the actual show. I wouldn’t use them as part of my argument.

 

[NCC-73515]

We don't have to drag this out, but in response to new comments...

Eh, I think I'd prefer a bad joke (which I didn't fully get before looking it up either) over people trying to dress someone down for factual innaccuracy when they don't even know the subject matter well enough to know which actress is which. If you're going to tell someone they're wrong about a subject you don't know well, you should first put in the effort to make sure that they actually are wrong.

If you go back through the quotes in that part of the discussion, you can see who simply pointed out things that are true as posted, and who actually "dressed someone down" with false allegations and a weak personal attack (hint: not us).

It's just a general pet peeve of mine. If somebody has time to type "I don't know who that is," they have time to Google who the hell that is.

Here it could also help to go back to the original post.

...now let's move on

 

[The Old Mixer]

We don't have to drag this out,

And yet you do.

Here it could also help to go back to the original post.

See, I don't give a rat's ass what you were arguing about or who won. My point was that in this day and age...

Not everyone knows every actor

...isn't an excuse.

can you really not guess that the minor and background actors' names from single episodes are not familiar to everyone?

And neither is this.

 

[NCC-73515]

ah now it makes sense. you ignore the reason for something, and you ignore the context of a discussion - all good, your choice!

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I have gone back and looked at the original post. You both told someone they were wrong about something when they were 100% correct and then after they (very good-naturedly) provided clear proof they were correct, you blamed them for being 'unclear'. Never mind the fact that they were 100% explicit about who they were talking about and you chose to insert yourself into a conversation about actresses despite, by your own admission, not knowing who those actresses were.

 

[Tuskin38]

I know how the novel was marketed, BTW, because I talked directly to the author, John Jackson Miller, about it, albeit briefly, at a convention.

He also posts on these forums in the Literary section, shall we ask him personally? I think he’s already talked about it, could grab some quotes from him.

Your argument would hold more validity if we hadn't previously been directly told by the people behind current Star Trek that tie-in media is Canon until it's not.

https://mobile.twitter.com/karterhol/status/982283786745331712?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^982283786745331712|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/07/fear-itself-cover-revealed-star-trek-discovery-writer-addresses-tie-in-canon-question/

Thus far, nothing has come up that renders The Enterprise War's events non-Canonical by contradicting them.

What they said is that you can consider them canon until contradicted. They didn’t say they were directly canon.

Sullivan is a former writer on the show, not a producer not someone from the Trek section of CBS. He wasn’t in the position to decide what is and isn’t canon. He was essentially talking about head canon. This is Robert Orici on the Countdown comics situation all over again.

The show writers are under no obligation to acknowledge the events of any of the novels and so far nearly every Discovery novel released has been contradicted in some way.

Enterprise War has already been contradicted, there’s a character in the book that was renamed at some point before filming but after JJM finished the book, so the book has the old name.

Books/comics/games don’t need to be canon to be enjoyable, so I don’t know why this even matters.

 

[DigificWriter]

There's a summation of comments from Lucasfilm Story Group member Matt Martin that I used to have in my signature that is relevant to my broader point about Ted Sullivan's quote and how the people working on current Star Trek view tie-in media:
Canon only matters to the people responsible for creating content for a given property. To everyone else, it's a meaningless and irrelevant concept.

My larger point was that, in keeping with Ted Sullivan's comments, Such Sweet Sorrow treated the events of The Enterprise War and the characters established therein as Canon, as has everything else we've seen involving the Pike-era Enterprise, and I therefore believe that the choice to discard the Canon bridge crew that TEW and SSS jointly established is narratively significant and will therefore be narratively explained in some way by SNW's writers.

 

[Tuskin38]

s, Such Sweet Sorrow treated the events of The Enterprise War and the characters established therein as Canon

It was the other way around, JJM got the basic details of the characters from the show writers, they didn't get them from him. This is shown when one character was renamed after he finished the book.

and will therefore be narratively explained in some way by SNW's writers.

They never explained any of the other times they contradicted the novels, why would they start now?

 

[fireproof78]

Books/comics/games don’t need to be canon to be enjoyable, so I don’t know why this even matters.

It doesn't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It was the other way around, JJM got the basic details and characters from the show writers, they didn't get them from him.


They never explained any of the other novel contradictions, why would they start now?

They are "narratively significant", apparently. Because that's how spear carriers work in fiction.

 

[Jinn]

I genuinely didn't know the bridge crew from "Such Sweet Sorrows" had names, except for Colt.

 

[DigificWriter]

John Jackson Miller created the Enterprise's post-Cage bridge crew for The Enterprise War, just as David Mack created Discovery's bridge crew for Desperate Hours, and the details they both laid down in literary form were treated as Canon and, in DSC's case specifically, continue to be treated as such.

 

[Jinn]

David Mack created Discovery's bridge crew for Desperate Hours

Desperate Hours didn't feature the Discovery, it featured the Shenzhou. Saru, Burnham and Detmer are the only ones who were part of both Discovery's and Shenzhou's bridge crew. Mack coined Keyla Detmer's name. To my knowledge that the extent of info that made it from Desperat Hours to the TV show.

By the way, Desperate Hours also featured some newly created Enterprise crew members, none of which appeared on the show.

 

[XCV330]

Desperate Hours didn't feature the Discovery, it featured the Shenzhou. Saru, Burnham and Detmer are the only ones who were part of both Discovery's and Shenzhou's bridge crew. Mack coined Keyla Detmer's name. To my knowledge that the extent of info that made it from Desperat Hours to the TV show.

By the way, Desperate Hours also featured some newly created Enterprise crew members, none of which appeared on the show.

And a big chunk of the novel was invalidated by Season 2.

 

[Tuskin38]

John Jackson Miller created the Enterprise's post-Cage bridge crew for The Enterprise War, just as David Mack created Discovery's bridge crew for Desperate Hours, and the details they both laid down in literary form were treated as Canon and, in DSC's case specifically, continue to be treated as such.

You're correct about Mack and Desperate Hours (except it was the Shenzhou bridge crew not the Discovery), but we have no confirmation if the same was for Enterprise War, and as I said before they already contradicted the novel in Season 2.

 

[Tuskin38]

To my knowledge that the extent of info that made it from Desperat Hours to the TV show.

Half of the Shenzhou bridge crew were named by Mack, the actors were also given short bios written by Mack to read over if they wanted.

https://blog.trekcore.com/2017/09/interview-david-mack-star-trek-discovery-desperate-hours/

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Shenzhou_personnel#Crew_manifest

He doesn't name all the crew he got to name in the interview, but he does mention, Keyla Detmer, Troy Jannuzzi, and Kamran Gant.