Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x05 - "Die Trying"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Or a flying Volvo, that's what I used to call it when the show was brand new.
I was going to reply with something else.
But instead what I'll say is Discovery Season 3 has shown us that Post-Picard, Pre-Burn is entirely skippable. I'm glad they skipped over all of that.
Die Trying
The fifth episode of the third season. Discovery finds Federation headquarters cloaked in the middle of space. (Voyager-J, USS Nog, Both are very cool, particularly the latter.) With Saru, Burnham and Adira beaming over, they find that the Federation is down to only 38 members from over 350 at it's height just prior to the Burn. It definitely has seen better days, but at least Kaminar is one of the 38. This sequence was done very well. However Admiral Vance wants to break up the Discovery crew, to which Burnham objects.
Why this would be a surprise to the Discovery crew I'm not sure, given usual rotation of officers in real world militaries, but that would be to digress. Some refugees are suffering from a disease, to which Discovery can get the cure in a timely manner, given the Spore Drive. How convenient, but the story makes up for it. See below. Meanwhile Mirror Georgiou is interrogated by someone who may be in Section 31. No contact with the Mirror Universe for 500 years? (Or is it, no known contacts?)
Not sure how she was able to crash those holograms by blinking rapidly. Discovery jumps to the Tikhov where the Federation's Seed Bank is being cared for by a family of Barzans. (It seems Barzan joined the Federation in the 25th Century, and is one of the 38.) The interior of the ship was interesting, and the mystery of what happened to the family was engaging. Of course, it may have been more than a Coronal Mass Ejection that may have effected the ship, but again, the story was engaging.
Nhan deciding to stay behind was unexpected, but it seems that she might appear later in the season. Then there's Detmer (her vitals are unstable according to Vance.) There is almost certainly more going on with her futher down the road. Saru being concerned about Burnham possibly being mutinous (again) was a good touch given the changes in her. Overall it was a good episode. 8.8/10.
The fifth episode of the third season. Discovery finds Federation headquarters cloaked in the middle of space. (Voyager-J, USS Nog, Both are very cool, particularly the latter.) With Saru, Burnham and Adira beaming over, they find that the Federation is down to only 38 members from over 350 at it's height just prior to the Burn. It definitely has seen better days, but at least Kaminar is one of the 38. This sequence was done very well. However Admiral Vance wants to break up the Discovery crew, to which Burnham objects.
Why this would be a surprise to the Discovery crew I'm not sure, given usual rotation of officers in real world militaries, but that would be to digress. Some refugees are suffering from a disease, to which Discovery can get the cure in a timely manner, given the Spore Drive. How convenient, but the story makes up for it. See below. Meanwhile Mirror Georgiou is interrogated by someone who may be in Section 31. No contact with the Mirror Universe for 500 years? (Or is it, no known contacts?)
Not sure how she was able to crash those holograms by blinking rapidly. Discovery jumps to the Tikhov where the Federation's Seed Bank is being cared for by a family of Barzans. (It seems Barzan joined the Federation in the 25th Century, and is one of the 38.) The interior of the ship was interesting, and the mystery of what happened to the family was engaging. Of course, it may have been more than a Coronal Mass Ejection that may have effected the ship, but again, the story was engaging.
Nhan deciding to stay behind was unexpected, but it seems that she might appear later in the season. Then there's Detmer (her vitals are unstable according to Vance.) There is almost certainly more going on with her futher down the road. Saru being concerned about Burnham possibly being mutinous (again) was a good touch given the changes in her. Overall it was a good episode. 8.8/10.
It's because the show has gradually gotten better over time and they're running out of things to complain about. The fact that the show is starting to align with more "traditional Trek" presentation doesn't fit within their view of the show, which was biased and never going to change no matter how the show evolved, so now they have to resort to obtuse arguments about how the main protagonist solves the problems.
Now their complaints revolve around how the show is "a little less crappy, but it would be so much better without Mary Sue Burnham."
The try to deflect all criticism of DIS by claiming we are all "Mary Sue" peddlers is just as tedious and tired an argument as the actual "Mary Sue" peddlers
Nothing wrong with thinking the writers could have someone else get a little glory. I mean is it so terrible to believe that it would have been better let Nhan give the scientist the inspirational speech to save the day. Picard is the only person to actually have a show that is just about him and even he left the odd few scraps of glory for his crew
TNG series was produced on a relatively low budget, while the TNG movies had way more CGI $$$ because they were aimed to be summer blockbuster hits.
That's the simplest explanation. Also explains why the Enterprise-D almost never fired its phasers in the series, while in the four TNG movies both the-D and the-E fired a lot more 'pew-pews' than during the 7-years of TNG series.
And why the philosopher & diplomat Picard from the series became 'Action Picard' in the movies
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Exactly. There wasn't much complaint about ''Discovery totally sucks/It is not real 'Star Trek'" any longer. Now the complaint is "It would've been a much better show if Burnham, Tilly, Georgiou, etc were not in it" (or at least were not in each episodes).
Do notice a lot of criticisms were directed against the female cast, not the male cast, so unfortunately they might be driven by gender bias/sexism at play as well
Nope again trying to deflect but with sexism now. There were a few people on here who seem to have disappeared thankfully who were attacking the female, BAME and gay characters (despite apparently being one) but plenty on here like myself who are on record praising many female characters but dont like those 3 and have given perfectly valid reasonsExactly. There wasn't much complaint about ''Discovery totally sucks/It is not real 'Star Trek'" any longer. Now the complaint is "It would've been a much better show if Burnham, Tilly, Georgiou, etc were not in it" (or at least were not in each episodes).
Do notice a lot of criticisms were directed against the female cast, not the male cast, so unfortunately they might be driven by gender bias/sexism at play as well
Dunno about sexism, but Burnham at least is her very own kind of annoying. Kirk, Sisko and Janeway bullied themselves to righteous victory pretty much the same way all; Burnham is written in a way that allows SMG to emote to her full range, for better or (IMHO) worse.
Trying to write her inevitable victories as non-tearjerkers would probably backfire, too: this is her story, and whatever we see, we see through her tears, much as we saw VOY through Janeway's smirking, or TNG through Picard's. Or TOS through Kirk simply making his adversaries look ridiculous, and then having a good last laugh, even if over heaps of redshirt bodies or whatnot.
Timo Saloniemi
Trying to write her inevitable victories as non-tearjerkers would probably backfire, too: this is her story, and whatever we see, we see through her tears, much as we saw VOY through Janeway's smirking, or TNG through Picard's. Or TOS through Kirk simply making his adversaries look ridiculous, and then having a good last laugh, even if over heaps of redshirt bodies or whatnot.
Timo Saloniemi
Haha you make Kirk sound really evil like he was just pouring hoards of red shirts at every problem like the Russian army at Stalingrad
He only ever really does that twice, in "Obsession" and "The Changeling", where he might have had the choice of not sending anybody because the task was hopeless to begin with: the enemy had already won by default, so defaulting further would not have done extra harm.
Surprisingly few people die in DSC. Only two dozen on that memorial wall after a battle that involved fighting in the corridors, use of piloted small craft with scant protection, plus the standard ship-to-ship pounding? That's pretty good going. And these heroes never lose anybody on away missions. Keep up the good work!
(Although there's also a bias here, with no redshirts assigned to the away teams. Goes with the whole "science ship" territory, I guess, and with Burnham holding the only license to kill. But it's exceptional in any case.)
Timo Saloniemi
Surprisingly few people die in DSC. Only two dozen on that memorial wall after a battle that involved fighting in the corridors, use of piloted small craft with scant protection, plus the standard ship-to-ship pounding? That's pretty good going. And these heroes never lose anybody on away missions. Keep up the good work!
(Although there's also a bias here, with no redshirts assigned to the away teams. Goes with the whole "science ship" territory, I guess, and with Burnham holding the only license to kill. But it's exceptional in any case.)
Timo Saloniemi
Really?! They don’t fire them as much as torpedoes perhaps but I wouldn’t say almost never.
Definitely not the D.
For that we can thank Patrick Stewart, who wanted to be seen as an action hero actor and demanded action scenes.
That's like complaining TOS would have been better if Kirk, Spock and McCoy weren't in it (or at least not each episode).[/QUOTE]
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Amazing.
This blinking thing is gonna drag on for a while.
This blinking thing is gonna drag on for a while.
I’m talking about a specific group of haters who have hated the show from the beginning and don’t see the evolution or changes the show has made. Criticism is great; continual, completely biased commentary is what gets tiresome.
I’m also a little confused why you argued against the Mary Sue peddler stereotype and then go on to make a Mary Sue argument later in your post anyway? Can’t have it both ways IMO.
I’ll also address the actual Mary Sue argument. Some haters dislike the show so much that they can’t see (or maybe aren’t willing to see) examples of growth in its writing and portrayal of other characters. I mean last season we had Pike save the day multiple times. Airiam sacrificed herself to save the day, with Nhan helping while Burnham was actually emotionally unable to do so. Stamets made the key repair to power the ship hours after recovering from a severe impalement. Saru defused the situation on the mining planet, then figured out how to get his crew’s morale back up. Culber is getting some pretty good screen time lately. Are these all not examples of giving other characters their “scraps of glory?”
This is not much different from traditional Trek where each character often had the chance to contribute something, but the main characters got most of the glory. The only significant difference is that the seasons are shorter so you have less flexibility to dedicate whole episodes to supporting characters. And even then it took 4 to 5 seasons to flesh out characters like Geordi or Bashir.
To be fair, the first two seasons of the show did horribly suffer from a kind of confused schizophrenia (and understandably so) from the constant changing of the people running it. This is the first season where the show-runners were not punted for one reason or another and, all of a sudden (GASP!) the show starts to have a more logically cohesive progression throughout the season's run. In fact, I've seen more positive responses from people this year for Disco than any other and less negative near-trolling commentary (read: silence) from the usual tiresome bile-spitters.
I would submit that much of the early criticism of the show was nothing more than a knee-jerk viewer reaction from the previous conflicted writing styles emerging as a function of cross-threaded driving vision. It was always theorized by many folks over the years, but the more positive reception it's garnered this year pretty much confirms it. Better late than never, I guess...
I would submit that much of the early criticism of the show was nothing more than a knee-jerk viewer reaction from the previous conflicted writing styles emerging as a function of cross-threaded driving vision. It was always theorized by many folks over the years, but the more positive reception it's garnered this year pretty much confirms it. Better late than never, I guess...
I don't think they turned them off, they're just invisible.
They could do that in TNG, Pulaski gives him the option but he declines because he likes the expanded vision his visor gives him.
Yes it was in Season 2.
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