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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x05 - "Die Trying"

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ah, this makes sense. So we can hypothesize that Starfleet uses a letter suffix when a ship is directly carrying out her predecessor’s mission, as opposed to just sharing the name...

Dunno about that. In which way did the assorted Enterprises carry out the same mission? As far as we could tell, they did the most generic stuff out there, that is, everything - but so did everybody else. And then just one of the Enterprises was the Federation Flagship for a while, but was succeeded by the next suffix down the line nevertheless.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Dunno about that. In which way did the assorted Enterprises carry out the same mission? As far as we could tell, they did the most generic stuff out there, that is, everything - but so did everybody else. And then just one of the Enterprises was the Federation Flagship for a while, but was succeeded by the next suffix down the line nevertheless.

Timo Saloniemi
well, the enterprises were all supposed “to boldly go” etcetera...
 
as mentioned several times over the years, just because something didn’t make sense in past Trek isn’t a justification if something doesn’t now. Besides, I’m sure that someone on a BBS in 2000 noticed it didn’t make sense and someone else pointed out something on TNG that didn’t.
It's not a Trek thing. It's a thing that's been a part of fiction since we began telling stories by the fire.
 
Cronenberg's character really got me thinking. I think he may be both a Terran and a member or leader of Section 31. This got me thinking more and I'm wondering if somehow Section 31 has from the beginning (perhaps due to time travel) been an instrument of Terrans to infiltrate, influence, and control United Earth and the Federation.
 
It's not a Trek thing. It's a thing that's been a part of fiction since we began telling stories by the fire.
As you wish:

as mentioned several times over the years millennia, just because something didn’t make sense in past Trek fiction isn’t a justification if something doesn’t now. Besides, I’m sure that someone on a BBS around a fire in 2000 BC noticed something that didn’t make sense and someone else pointed out something else on TNG in Gilgamesh that didn’t.

Better now?
 
By the way, is this the first time Culber is called to the bridge? And why do they call him on the bridge, by the way, the transporter room should make more sense (ah, right, Discovery persists in the anachronistic use of the transporter when they beam in and out any room on a early 23rd century ship)?
Just as long as we don't get more turbolift funhouse animation, I'm happy. Has there been any this season?

Speaking of uses of transportation, wouldn't it be better for SF to use Discovery as a freighter? Park a few small ships in that oversized shuttle bay, then shroom into the engagement area. Indeed, it might be possible to compact many ships together, presuming I understood the dialogue about ships composed of force fields correctly.
 
You can't park anything in there. Have you seen what shape that bay is in? Apparently, one of the people left behind in the 23rd century was the guy or gal in charge of logistics.

Also, there are no fewer than three workbees flying around in there at all times. Including during black alerts! They have been trying in vain to flush out those idiots by keeping the bay doors open. One of these days, they'll have to accept the inevitable and just send in a firing squad.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Not only did he have to crumble it in order to fit, he actually crushed a pile of containers in the process! Just go slo-mo on that scene...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Interesting that the admiral said that they spent most of the other centery fighting the Temporal Wars, so looks like it went from Cold to Hot War. And the Disco and crew being criminals just by time traveling.
 
the admiral said that the ship was only 5 months away from returning

I thought he said it was 5 months away, as in 5 months travel time to get there. Not that it would be returning in 5 months.

Just seems a little silly if all ships start using the letter designation. I liked the idea of it just being on the flagship.
There is a continuity issue I’ve noticed. Tilly immediately knew what the J meant on Voyager which is odd since the Enterprise was the first ship to do the letter designation.
That J could have meant anything to her.

TNG established in season 2 that the dash system was in use outside the Enterprise:

RIKER: It's a Federation ship. NCC one three zero five dash E. It's the Yamato, our sister ship.
(Where Silence has Lease)

I'm not aware that the Enterprise's use of the system had ever been established as unusual.

We've also seen that future Starfleet in the Braxton timeline used letter prefixes (USS Relativity).



ehr...sure, almost as good as the reason Saru remained behind on this episode! :biggrin:

The reason was absolutely fine - he was a hostage to the Discovery's return. The highest value hostage they could offer (as future Starfleet don't know how special Michael is).

By late 24th century the federation had over 150 member worlds. For this number to only double in the next 500 to 600 years seems... Suspicious.

I've been thinking about this. We never really get a good sense of how many inhabited worlds there are in the galaxy of Trek. We see the Borg designate a new species number 8472, so assuming there is nothing more to their system than a linear count, they encountered 8471 before that. Assuming their system only counts intelligent life (or it would be in the trillions) and that it includes species not assimilated (as humans, talaxians and ferengi have a number) that gives us some sense of the scale of intelligent life in the area the Borg have explored, which is pretty big and includes areas of Delta, Beta and Alpha quadrants at least. Maybe a guess of approx 9000 intelligent species per quadrant is reasonable?

It may be that there is a natural upper limit to how big the Federation could reasonably grow, assuming it did not absorb any of the other big empires of the TNG era. 350 member worlds does seem small, about 4% of the guess above in the alpha quadrant, but maybe we simply don't know enough about the geopolitical forcings of the 25th through 30th centuries to know what stopped the expansion. As you could say "why does the US peak at 50 states? That's barely 6% of the land mass!" and completely miss the reasons it stopped expanding rapidly.
 
The more I think about it, I'm really curious as to what the status of the Borg is in this time frame. I'm not saying that Discovery should do a story that involves the Borg, but I wouldn't mind a reference to the collective and what they're up to (Extinct? Evolved? Still around but no longer a threat?). This episode established that the Federation has a deep space outpost out in the Delta Quadrant near Ocampa and Talax, so they have to have dealt with the issue of Borg space at some point.

Maybe they're specifically avoiding referencing the Borg so they don't step on the toes of anything a future season of Picard might have planned for them. We don't really know what the status of the collective is in 2399 yet, let alone 3188.

I assume we'll probably get some kind of moment where the Discovery crew learns that Romulus no longer exists?
 
I don't think we can put too much stock in the graphic, as DSC doesn't have the strongest history with that sort of thing - images lifted from the star charts books and the like.
 
Could we potentially see two separate federations that split after the burn, competing for which one is actually the “real” federation, or at least successor state? Discovery will mend the rift between the two, so they can rejoin and become one again!
 
Cronenberg's character really got me thinking. I think he may be both a Terran and a member or leader of Section 31. This got me thinking more and I'm wondering if somehow Section 31 has from the beginning (perhaps due to time travel) been an instrument of Terrans to infiltrate, influence, and control United Earth and the Federation.

My theory from the 1990s that Agent Sloan was a Terran might be proven correct after all ;):beer:
 
Kind of waiting for an info dump where they learn everything that has happened in the past 900 years. In a general sense.
 
I've been thinking about this. We never really get a good sense of how many inhabited worlds there are in the galaxy of Trek. We see the Borg designate a new species number 8472, so assuming there is nothing more to their system than a linear count, they encountered 8471 before that. Assuming their system only counts intelligent life (or it would be in the trillions) that gives us some sense of the scale of intelligent life in the area the Borg have explored, which is pretty big and includes areas of Delta, Beta and Alpha quadrants at least. Maybe a guess of approx 9000 intelligent species per quadrant is reasonable?

It may be that there is a natural upper limit to how big the Federation could reasonably grow, assuming it did not absorb any of the other big empires of the TNG era. 350 member worlds does seem small, about 4% of the guess above in the alpha quadrant, but maybe we simply don't know enough about the geopolitical forcings of the 25th through 30th centuries to know what stopped the expansion. As you could say "why does the US peak at 50 states? That's barely 6% of the land mass!" and completely miss the reasons it stopped expanding rapidly.

We DO know however that the Borg encountered over 10 000 species by late 24th century (Voyager)... and assimilated a good portion of those species (but likely not all of them - such as species that didn't offer anything of interest to the Borg, or because they couldn't be assimilated - like 8472)... in some cases when they go assimilating species, they assimilate them in totality (aka, no refugees or anyone left with intact individuality).

An interesting note: We do know they encountered 8472 in Voyager's third year of travel through the DQ... or most likely (shortly before Voyager stumbled upon Borg and 8372).
And only 2 years later, the Borg encountered (and assimilated) species 10026.

Thanks to TW technology, it seems the Borg encountered 1554 more species in just 2 years.

The Federation being limited to slower warp would of course progress slower... but also, this doesn't strike me as convincing because the Federation had numerous options for far faster Warp travel and alternate means of propulsion (especially after Voyager returned)... so, I doubt speed would have been a limiting factor, and we could say that it had mainly a lot to do with Federation entry requirements and we know from 'The Voyager Conspiracy' the following:
CHAKOTAY: That's quite a theory. Perhaps you haven't heard of the Jankata Accord?
SEVEN: No species shall enter another quadrant for the purpose of territorial expansion.
CHAKOTAY: The Federation signed it, the Cardassians signed it, and Captain Janeway would be the last person to violate it.

Its possible that this is what mainly limited Federation expansion further into the galaxy... but 691 years (after the 24th century - 691 years from 2378 would give you the year 3069... when 'The Burn' may have happened) is a VERY long time for those accords to still be in place.
 
Could we potentially see two separate federations that split after the burn, competing for which one is actually the “real” federation, or at least successor state? Discovery will mend the rift between the two, so they can rejoin and become one again!

You may be right.
Episode 8 & 9 of S3 is a two-parter titled "Terra Firma.''
. Would this refer to a second, probably larger, Federation spun-off established by far-flung Earth colonists in another corner of the galaxy? Stay tuned.
 
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