Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 3x05 - "Die Trying"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Commander Richard, Nov 11, 2020.

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Rate the episode...

  1. 10 - Oh, nice!

    16.0%
  2. 9

    26.8%
  3. 8

    31.0%
  4. 7

    16.0%
  5. 6

    4.7%
  6. 5

    1.9%
  7. 4

    0.9%
  8. 3

    1.4%
  9. 2

    1.4%
  10. 1 - Dead dull.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Shale! It's all shale and digger filth!
     
  2. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Giotto speech really reminded me of the Gazelle speech.
     
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  3. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This... but, large organizations like the Klingon Empire and the Dominion do subjugate other alien species and consider them 'Klingon empire' or 'Dominion' once conquered.
    If those were to be absorbed into the Federation, wouldn't those subjugated species (even if there are few of them) gain freedom/independence and an option to join the Federation of their own accord?
    I would probably think this to be the case.

    How many species did we see actually being part of the Dominion?
    The Karema, Vorta, and that one trader Quark dealt with when the Defiant went into the GQ to look for the Founders.
    The Skreea are another species to take into account... but they were subjugated by the Dominion in the GQ... and the refugees who escaped (millions) settled on another world inside Federation space (they may have become part of the Federation later on, or are still enjoying independence - not sure how many previously subjugated races might want to become part of another organisation... though Bajor certainly was considered ready for admission only 4-5 years after the occupation.

    Maybe the GQ is just sparsely populated?

    I mean an empire can be large and still have subjugated only a few alien species...
     
  4. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The 37's descendants who are in the Delta Quadrant perhaps?
     
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  5. caper_guy

    caper_guy Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I didn't read all the posts yet, but I wonder if that tune was initiated somehow by Spock after seeing the final signal. Another theory I saw on a Facebook post is that it has something to do with the burn and some important location and/or message hidden within the music.

    At any rate, there has to be a future storyline around it. It was strange though for the Federation security officer to shrug it off so quickly.
     
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  6. Gingerbread Demon

    Gingerbread Demon Admiral Premium Member

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    I like this idea but Section 31 has been around since the days of Enterprise... So the infiltration must have started way early.
     
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  7. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes or no. The peoples of the British and French empires did not necessarily gain anything with their mother countries memberships in organizations like the League of Nations or the United Nations. And sometimes being part of those empires might not even even extend membership to all territories. The Falklands, for instance, were part of the European Union up until UK exited. However, Isle of Man has never been part of the EU. And there are some nations who spent some time after gaining independence before joining the United Nations.
     
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  8. TheMadCloner

    TheMadCloner Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think it was anywhere near as sledgehammer-didactic, and Doug Jones' delivery was 1000x better (and more natural) than Bakula's.
     
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  9. Ketrick

    Ketrick Commander Red Shirt

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    It was hinted in Enterprise that Section 31 had existed at least since the founding of Earth Starfleet. This is why I suggested the possibility of time travel. However, an early crossover from the Mirror Universe isn't completely unlikely, but they would probably need some knowledge of the Prime Universe's future.
     
  10. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm getting the sense that Disco S3 pacing is somewhat similar to Picard S1.
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    It’s not gonna change. Not even by the 32nd. Century. The issue is a non starter.
     
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  12. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Led by The Vulcan/Romulan alliance...........Hince the upcoming Unification III
     
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  13. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    So I was thinking about the Geogiou/Glasses Guy exchange (an excellent B-plot this episode, IMO) and her odd zoned-out countenance when Burnham tried to talk to her. We know that 24th century Section 31 tech allows for operators to maintain a virtual environment in their mind to store all their deepest secrets, so there is no actual paper trail of anything in the real world (very smart OpSec here, actually). Additionally, an interface could be built to allow people to communicate with each other in that virtual world. I'm thinking the S31 tech advanced far enough along to easily allow full-on virtual conversations in the mind. I'm convinced Glasses Guy is definitely S31 and he probably had something embedded in Georgiou (per 32nd century S31 SOP) and her body was in the process of assimilating to the tech ... or, possibly rejecting it, if her Terran molecular biology is really that different from ours (they didn't throw that line into the dialog for kicks - there was a far-reaching purpose for it, I'm, thinking). Her zombie-like appearance may be one of these virtual sessions taking place in real-time and she just doesn't know the difference, yet, due to its highly-realistic nature.
     
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  14. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Episodes 1-5 are Act I
    Episodes 6-10 will be Act II
    Episodes 11-13 will be Act III

    That's the sense I'm getting out of it. Picard Season 1 also followed a three-act structure (Eps 1-3, 4-8, and 9-10). It's understandable that DSC S3's first act is longer than PIC S1's.

    When Picard was introducing us to the eve of a new century, it was more like the odometer was about to roll over from "99" to "00". A new century just happened to come up. And we had 21 seasons of the 24th Century and four films to pick up from.

    In Discovery's third season, they have to introduce us to something totally new that we hadn't ever seen before, except for possibly "Calypso". So the first episode introduces Burnham to the 32nd Century. Then a year passes, so she can get used to the time. Then in the second episode, Discovery appears and they get introduced to the 32nd Century. Then the third episode, Burnham and Discovery are reunited and the first thing they do is go to Earth. Where we find out Earth's not part of the Federation anymore. Then Adira comes along. Then, in the fourth episode, Adira helps them find out where the Federation is. Then comes the fifth episode and we finally see the Federation and it takes the entire episode for Starfleet to accept Discovery and for Discovery to become part of the fleet again.

    For those who don't want to read the above paragraph (who wants to read a big block of text? :p), let's just say I'm glad we had five episodes' worth of transition. It's needed when you shift things so radically.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
  15. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Captain Captain

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    May I steal that for my signature?
     
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  16. NigellaDeanna20

    NigellaDeanna20 Commander Red Shirt

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    Another really good ep. of Discovery. This show is really starting to find its feet now. Loved it.
     
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  17. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    I still really really dislike Burnham, back to being really annoying. I'm glad Saru slapped her down again the way he did.
     
  18. Muji

    Muji Commander Red Shirt

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    Slapped her down? Hardly. He showed good leadership and spoke to her about something. That's not a slapping down, in my opinion. It was put in there for a reason.
     
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  19. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    I think the fate of Nhan is going to be tied up with Emperor Georgio (not in the way Emperor Georgio would like, necessarily). Something happens that either sends Georgio back in time to the 23rd century, or else this new Section 31 series takes place in the post-burn era. If they do return back to the the previous era, I suspect Nhan goes with her. She is maybe one of the most homesick of any of the crew.

    Georgio's desire to stay with Discovery was based on a false-maternal sense she had for Burnham. You can see in the long glances she gives (fantastic actor), Burnham doesn't need her, and she has no real motivation any longer. We've all felt it: when you don't feel you have a purpose, life sucks.
     
  20. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Yes, I think everyone has pretty much gotten wise to Burnham's propensity for bucking authority by now. Although, with her free-wheeling year off with Book, and Georgiou's accurate analysis thereof, they've actually introduced a viable reason why Burnham wouldn't easily fit back within the structured Starfleet hierarchy. When you get that first taste of real independence, it's hard to go back into a world where you must do what you're told by someone who might possibly not be smarter than you.
     
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