I am watching DS9 for the first time (some observations)
- Thread starter CRM-114
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Given how GEN played out, maybe they should have let DS9 use the E-D.
There could have been some serious crossover event potential there, though I don't think it would have worked as a big screen movie because the DS9 cast would still need to be the primaries.
DS9 fans might have enjoyed it, but TNG fans would hate it. And there are more of them than there are of us. Also, TNG cast would have no more movies to do, and that would have made the cast and the producers unhappy...
I wasn't suggesting literally just pasting in the E-D instead. If the episode had been updated to be a two-parter, perhaps with the TNG folks not even in it until the 2nd part, when the E-D arrives at DS9, then the combat sequences could certainly have been modified to allow Our Heroes to escape and make more movies.
I guess that might have cheapened the "all hands lost" aspect of the episode, but it would have been the E-D instead of a ship and captain we were just meeting (though Keogh got a lot of characterization given his relatively small amount of screen time), and it would still demonstrate that the Jem'hadar were not to be trifled with.
And it would be better than "Ooops, I guess the BoP hit us one too many times. Maybe we should have actually put up a fight."
Oh, and it would spare us the abominable reuse of the BoP footage from TUC. I might support using the E-D instead just to do that.
I guess that might have cheapened the "all hands lost" aspect of the episode, but it would have been the E-D instead of a ship and captain we were just meeting (though Keogh got a lot of characterization given his relatively small amount of screen time), and it would still demonstrate that the Jem'hadar were not to be trifled with.
And it would be better than "Ooops, I guess the BoP hit us one too many times. Maybe we should have actually put up a fight."
Oh, and it would spare us the abominable reuse of the BoP footage from TUC. I might support using the E-D instead just to do that.
I decided to join the board as I've just started watching DS9 for the first time and didn't think it was worth creating a whole new thread as this one already exists, so I figured I'd document my viewing here. I grew up watching TNG and VOY but only ever caught snippets of DS9; I had a VHS with some episodes from Season 7 but otherwise I only really know what I've read. This is the first time I've made a concerted effort to try the show.
So far, I'm really enjoying it. Some brief thoughts on the first few episodes:
Emissary
So far, I'm really enjoying it. Some brief thoughts on the first few episodes:
Emissary
- I was pleasantly surprised by how well this has held up. As a pilot, it's efficiently structured and sets the central premise up well. A lot of opening episodes will try to introduce every single character and their backstory and invariably end up feeling rushed; this was handled at a much better pace, with Sisko and Kira getting the focus with some nice moments for the other main cast members.
- I like the different layers of conflict introduced - Sisko's resentment of Picard; Kira's distrust of Starfleet; Sisko's interjection into the Bajoran religion; Quark and Odo's contentious but almost codependent relationship. Nothing felt forced and the cast dynamic is very interesting.
- I find Bashir a little irritating, but I think that's the point. He's obviously very wet behind the ears and I imagine this will lessen over the course of the series.
- I enjoyed Sisko's encounter with the Prophets. It was a little cheesy but I liked the way he was forced to confront the tragedy of losing his wife and how the experience helped him to move past it. I would've liked to have seen more of his uneasy relationship with Picard, but I guess they didn't want Picard to overshadow the pilot.
- My favourite part of the pilot was Kira facing down the Cardassian warship with no weapons. She's quickly become my favourite character on the show so far.
- It's great that things remain uneasy between the various factions on the station. I have a nostalgic love for VOY but there was a lot of wasted potential there with the dynamic of having Starfleet and Maquis crews forced to work together. It seems that DS9 will mine the similar drama here more effectively. I particularly liked the scene where Odo challenged Sisko's assertion that he thought he was innocent.
- The resolution to the episode was a little quick and neat for my liking. It was a little odd that no one was more surprised or alarmed that Bashir had grown a clone.
- Although it wasn't particularly exciting, I appreciated the sub-plot with Keiko starting a school because it makes the station feel more fleshed out. I wasn't so enamoured with the story of Bashir pursuing Jadzia...I'm still finding him a little annoying.
- I really enjoyed this episode. I continue to enjoy Kira and her inner turmoil here was interesting and well developed. I liked her scene with Odo where she approached him as her confidant but even more so her conflict with Sisko. Their mutual distrust and discomfort with one another - which becomes more of a respect here - makes for a great captain/first officer dynamic.
- The moral quandaries raised around the Cardassian occupation of Bajor and the Bajoran freedom fighters are a solid basis for the story (on an ongoing basis, I'd imagine). I like that Kira struggled with the idea that she was surrendering her cause by working with the Federation.
- The appearance of the two Klingons seemed a little superfluous but I liked Tahna Los and the Kohn-ma as villains. I wouldn't mind seeing them return to challenge Kira a little more.
- I understand that Garak is a fan favourite and he definitely had a solid introduction here. I'm looking forward to see how he develops, although given the suspicion around Odo that was whipped into a frenzy in "A Man Alone", it's surprising that there doesn't seem to be much fuss around a Cardassian remaining on the station.
- An enjoyable but unremarkable episode. It was probably a little more entertaining due to the parallels with current events, given the station-wide quarantine, but it felt like it lacked teeth compared to the preceding episodes.
- The character dynamics enhanced a relatively mediocre story. Odo and Quark working together to save the station was great and I think their rapport is one of the best parts of the show so far. Similarly, I liked Kira taking matters into her own hands by kidnapping the Bajoran doctor and the emphasis on Sisko's relationship with his son.
- I think the idea of an old Bajoran booby trap being accidentally triggered is a good one, but I didn't really feel like the aphasia virus hit the mark. It was overly convenient that Sisko and Kira were some of the last to be infected; it all felt a bit too manufactured purely for the plot to work.
Captive Pursuit
- I really enjoyed this episode. It was a nice spotlight for O'Brien and I liked Tosk, as well as the hunting concept. It reminded me a little of the Hirogen from VOY (although obviously this came first).
- It was interesting to see Quark inspire O'Brien to break the rules and it was good to see Sisko back him up, if only passively. I think it's realistic to acknowledge that Federation rules wouldn't fit every scenario but also that this would frustrate its officers sometimes.
- One thing that bothers me (and does throughout this season) is the nonchalant approach to first contacts from the Gamma Quadrant. Tosk - the first alien to emerge from the wormhole - docks and Sisko sends his Chief of Operations to greet him with no security? That didn't ring true. The crew might not be explorers but you'd think they'd be better equipped to handle new arrivals.
- I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion but I don't like Q. I think he's a pretty tedious character and he's just about salvageable for me because of his rapport with Picard. Without that, he fell flat for me here - as did this episode as a whole. I don't think Q is a natural fit for the tone of DS9 and
- Bashir is still hitting on any woman who walks within ten feet of him. I hope this changes because right now it seems to be his sole character trait. The moment at the end where he wakes up and talks to Jadzia in Quark's was pretty bizarre - it was like dialogue had been muted, with Jadzia not even talking to him. A very odd ending.
- The artefact Quark and Vash were selling turning out to be an alien entity was out of left field and pretty inconsequential. I'm not sure any of the characters even discussed it.
- I did like Sisko punching Q and declaring that he was not like Picard.
- A pretty strong episode, although considering its title, I feel like it was actually more of a character showcase for Sisko than for Jadzia.
- The central question - is a host responsible for the actions of their symbiont in a past life - is a great sci-fi moral conundrum. I enjoyed seeing the arguments for and against and also liked the fact that no clear answer was given. Alongside Curzon's past indiscretions, it was interesting to see this episode so centred in the moral grey.
- I'm still waiting for Bashir to show some kind of personality other than being a bit of a lech. Following Jadzia to her quarters after her clear indication that she didn't want him to didn't help his character. I'm looking forward to a Bashir-focused episode so that he can be fleshed out a bit more, because he's the weak link in the chain right now for me.
- Not a terrible episode, not a great one. The central plot was okay but it brought to the fore some decent character moments, including Odo and Lieutenant Primmin butting heads. As guest stars go, I quite liked Kajada too.
- I don't want to sound like I'm going too hard after Bashir, but Alexander Siddig's portrayal of Vantika-possessed Bashir at the end made me wince a little. I expect a certain level of hamminess in Star Trek but this was a bit over the top for me, especially since he'd spent the rest of the episode talking normally.
- I didn't enjoy this episode at all. I thought the idea was interesting but the execution was just way off for me. Watching Sisko, Jadzia, Bashir and Kira play hopscotch is not my idea of a good episode and there wasn't really any character work to compensate for it. The best I can say is that the cavern collapse at the end was relatively exciting, but even that was immediately undermined by the reveal that none of the characters were ever in danger in the first place.
- I was expecting to dislike this episode as I've seen snippets of Ferengi episodes before and never enjoyed them. However, this one wasn't bad. I quite enjoyed Quark being thrust into a situation he was so uncomfortable with and his back-and-forth with Odo continues to be one of my favourite elements of the show.
- Zek was a bit silly, as were some of the other Ferengi elements. The plot itself was also quite heavy-handed but I found I enjoyed it more if I just let that go.
- The best part of this episode for me was the B-plot with Jake and Nog. I like the friendship between them and the fact that Sisko is slowly coming around to it.
I won't even attempt to apologize for most of the episodes you just discussed, as you hit points that I don't think anyone tries to defend. It gets better, really!
What I find amusing is that in this day and age TNG and DS9 never would have survived past their first seasons.
What I find amusing is that in this day and age TNG and DS9 never would have survived past their first seasons.
I'm still enjoying it - partially out of nostalgia for 90s Star Trek, but also because it has a solid premise. I'm looking forward to getting more into the Gamma Quadrant though and for Worf's arrival - he was always my favourite from TNG.
I thought the very first run of episodes was great and I think the quality has actually declined a bit in the middle stretch. You're right, though, that networks are much more mercenary nowadays and a lot of shows don't have the chance to get past their growing pains. Maybe because viewers are able to be a lot more vocal thanks to the internet!
Curse you, internet!!!
Most people feel that at least one of the last two episodes of S1 is among the best of the series, and I feel the other marks a significant uptick in the writing. I'll be curious to see what you think when you get there.
I wonder how DS9 might have fared in S1 if they hadn't played the TNG-spin-off card quite as often.
Most people feel that at least one of the last two episodes of S1 is among the best of the series, and I feel the other marks a significant uptick in the writing. I'll be curious to see what you think when you get there.
I wonder how DS9 might have fared in S1 if they hadn't played the TNG-spin-off card quite as often.
Curse you, internet!!!
Most people feel that at least one of the last two episodes of S1 is among the best of the series, and I feel the other marks a significant uptick in the writing. I'll be curious to see what you think when you get there.
I wonder how DS9 might have fared in S1 if they hadn't played the TNG-spin-off card quite as often.
I'm looking forward to getting to them! And to see if there's finally an episode that makes me like Bashir
Regarding Captive Pursuit, I think it is good that Sisko realized that Tosk was very shy but that O'Brien was getting along well with him, and that sending a formal greeting party with CO, senior officers, and security would not have good results in that situation.
Dax, I was uncomfortable with Jadzia being unable or unwilling to talk to her closest friend about what happened. This is not the "face your problems" kind of Dax that we saw in flashbacks about Curzon, or later Jadzia. What happened to the host's responsibility to make sure the symbiant makes it to the next host alive?
Bashir in the first season or so was not very sympathetic. He does get better later. He doesn't completely lose the tendency to hit on inappropriate women, but better aspects of his character come out.
Dax, I was uncomfortable with Jadzia being unable or unwilling to talk to her closest friend about what happened. This is not the "face your problems" kind of Dax that we saw in flashbacks about Curzon, or later Jadzia. What happened to the host's responsibility to make sure the symbiant makes it to the next host alive?
Bashir in the first season or so was not very sympathetic. He does get better later. He doesn't completely lose the tendency to hit on inappropriate women, but better aspects of his character come out.
I am one of the few defenders of "MOVE ALONG HOME", for multiple reasons.
1. It was a great concept. Literally being inside a board game. I guarantee MANY people would love a chance at that.
2. It was a good showcase of how the Gamma Quadrant races are so technologically advanced, especially when you compare early VOYAGER seasons' races. It was a good way to differentiate the style of the quadrants.
3. Quark was a big standout here. His scenes were awesome and paved the way for so much of his arc.
4. The costuming of the Wadi was really cool. The makeup was nothing special, but the costumes more than made up for that.
5. Nice showcase of how those officers problem solve. And each has a different style of going about it, too.
This episode has far more going on for it than people give it credit for.
1. It was a great concept. Literally being inside a board game. I guarantee MANY people would love a chance at that.
2. It was a good showcase of how the Gamma Quadrant races are so technologically advanced, especially when you compare early VOYAGER seasons' races. It was a good way to differentiate the style of the quadrants.
3. Quark was a big standout here. His scenes were awesome and paved the way for so much of his arc.
4. The costuming of the Wadi was really cool. The makeup was nothing special, but the costumes more than made up for that.
5. Nice showcase of how those officers problem solve. And each has a different style of going about it, too.
This episode has far more going on for it than people give it credit for.
When you factor in the Dominion War, various Borg attacks (especially if you include the litverse), the ships zapped to the Delta Quadrant by The Caretaker, the destruction of Utopia Planetia...Starfleet must be massive indeed to keep absorbing these losses.
On the other hand, it did have the respect for the first official first contact you say you were missing in Tosk...
Personally, I did like Quarks grovelling, and the "It's only a game" line does make my smile.
I have finally finished watching "Paradise". I'm actually a few episodes ahead of this, but I'm trying to close in on the
end of Season 2.
What really makes the episode is the dynamic between Sisko and Alixus. Even as both sides have their points on the usefulness versus the dependence on modern technology, the strength of the episode is using that tension to examine cult behavior. Sisko refuses to yield to Alixus, because her community accepts her rule, Sisko sees her exactly for who and what she is, a sociopath with a messiah complex.
The episode clues us into the idea that Alixus isn't all she makes herself out to be. Sisko points out the remarkable "coincidence" that a woman with a hard anti-technological stance would crashland on a planet where technology doesn't work. Trying to get Sisko to ditch his Starfleet uniform isn't merely getting him to yield to the community's (read: Alixus) desires, it's also a constant reminder that there's a way off-planet (and out of Alixus' control). When Sisko and O'Brien are leaving, Alixus tries to convince the others of the gray and dreary lives she was supposedly rescuing them from, denying them the right (and even the capability) of deciding that for themselves.
...
I'll be back at the end of Season 2, to finish my recap of the rest of the episodes. right now, I'm partway through "The Maquis, Part I".
end of Season 2.
What really makes the episode is the dynamic between Sisko and Alixus. Even as both sides have their points on the usefulness versus the dependence on modern technology, the strength of the episode is using that tension to examine cult behavior. Sisko refuses to yield to Alixus, because her community accepts her rule, Sisko sees her exactly for who and what she is, a sociopath with a messiah complex.
The episode clues us into the idea that Alixus isn't all she makes herself out to be. Sisko points out the remarkable "coincidence" that a woman with a hard anti-technological stance would crashland on a planet where technology doesn't work. Trying to get Sisko to ditch his Starfleet uniform isn't merely getting him to yield to the community's (read: Alixus) desires, it's also a constant reminder that there's a way off-planet (and out of Alixus' control). When Sisko and O'Brien are leaving, Alixus tries to convince the others of the gray and dreary lives she was supposedly rescuing them from, denying them the right (and even the capability) of deciding that for themselves.
...
I'll be back at the end of Season 2, to finish my recap of the rest of the episodes. right now, I'm partway through "The Maquis, Part I".
I agree. If she wanted to live a primitive life, she should have organized a colony to do that from the beginning, not forced them into it. There must be some such colonies. We have Amish and such like now.
I'm glad, I was worried that going through every episode might be a bit much!
I'm actually into Season 2 now - I just watched "Cardassians" - so will provide my thoughts on the other episodes a bit later.
I agree with @arch101 - it's great to read someone else's reactions & thoughts about DS9 seen from the first time, as I only have vague recollections of how I felt when I watched it for the first time many years ago. These observations have inspired me to go back and watch episodes that I might not have bothered with again, so thank you @Agent Grayson and @CRM-114 
The Nagus has one of my favorite lines of the series.
Nevertheless, it is becoming more and more difficult to truly find lucrative business opportunities in the Alpha Quadrant. And why? Because no matter where we go, our reputation precedes is. A reputation tainted by the lies of our competitors, who maliciously spread the erroneous impression that we are not to be trusted!
Nevertheless, it is becoming more and more difficult to truly find lucrative business opportunities in the Alpha Quadrant. And why? Because no matter where we go, our reputation precedes is. A reputation tainted by the lies of our competitors, who maliciously spread the erroneous impression that we are not to be trusted!
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