• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

I am watching DS9 for the first time (some observations)

And yet Duet could easily have been a TNG episode (using Ro instead of Kira) with the most minimal of changes. :)
True, but it would not have had the same impact on me. While I loved Ro at the time (and was disappointed we did not see her again on DS9), Kira had already been much better developed before 'Duet,' so her character's emotionss and insights in this episode held more meaning for me than it would have with Ro on TNG, even though she had a similar history and was a very relatable character for me.

ETA: While the first two seasons were it and miss, I loved the episodes dealing with Bajoran (and Bajoran/ Cardassian) politics and culture.
 
ETA: While the first two seasons were it and miss, I loved the episodes dealing with Bajoran (and Bajoran/ Cardassian) politics and culture.
They really helped ground the series. The Starfleeters weren't on a cushy starship that didn't have to deal with the long-running tensions and quagmire like the Bajor/Cardassia relationship, these were people who were stuck right in the middle of it all.
 
True, but it would not have had the same impact on me. While I loved Ro at the time (and was disappointed we did not see her again on DS9), Kira had already been much better developed before 'Duet,' so her character's emotionss and insights in this episode held more meaning for me than it would have with Ro on TNG, even though she had a similar history and was a very relatable character for me.

ETA: While the first two seasons were it and miss, I loved the episodes dealing with Bajoran (and Bajoran/ Cardassian) politics and culture.

Kiras character is so wonderful and it’s a great example of a Strong Female Character done right.

Often times, especially these days Female Characters are made tough and unlikeable without much personality and giving them any sense of vulnerability I think to many writers feels like it would be doing the character a disservice when actually, it makes the character better.

Kira at first seems very unlikeable, but once you understand her story, once you get a sense of who she is and what she’s been through and once you see her vulnerable and dealing with love, her past, duty and tough choices about how to act in terms of certain orders she gets she may not agree with, navigating the tough crunch of Bajoran politics between people like Kai Winn, she becomes absolutely superb.

Again for me, a True example of a strong female character done right, she fights for what she believes, she’s a skilled warrior and tactician, but she also... Falls in love, makes mistakes, sometimes lets her feelings get the better of her, but she learns and changes and grows as an actual person does.

Always loved her character.
 
MY DS9 REWATCH

About a month ago, I had the opportunity to watch WHAT WE LEFT BEHIND, the documentary, and it revived my interest in DEEP SPACE NINE. Right after that, I re-watched the pilot, "Emissary" and the second episode ("Past Prologue") after that.

We had been re-watching TNG, keeping pace with the episodes that aired on H&I nightly. I'd usually run the same episode through the Roku or even resort to my Blu-rays if I wanted a really superb experience. Knowing that TNG was coming to its conclusion, I thought I'd hold off on the DS9 re-watch until after "All Good Things".

That aired sometime this past week and we've switched to DS9, picking up where H&I was in their rotation. They were about in the middle of S1, so it felt right to skip some of the weaker episodes in the early part of S1 and jump right into the rotation on H&I. Last night we watched "The Forsaken", the Lwaxana Troi S1 episode.

As I recall, DS9 spent a lot of its first season trying to throw in little references to TNG as often as it could. We had visits from Q and Vash and Lursa and B'tor, plus a preponderance of shows dealing with O'Brien and Keiko. I'm not sure whether or not that was a good idea, but it's pretty obvious that it was going on.

I recall that on my first watch of DS9, these visits from TNG folk were a good hook to hang on, as I truly was put off and uninterested in the whole situation of Bajor and its people, and yet much of S1 dealt with just that. Today, I recognize that the series was actually at its best when it was dealing with the plight of Bajor and the ramifications of the occupation by the Cardassians.

By Friday of this week, we'll be deep into the Maquis story that starts S2.
 
Kiras character is so wonderful and it’s a great example of a Strong Female Character done right.

Often times, especially these days Female Characters are made tough and unlikeable without much personality and giving them any sense of vulnerability I think to many writers feels like it would be doing the character a disservice when actually, it makes the character better.

Kira at first seems very unlikeable, but once you understand her story, once you get a sense of who she is and what she’s been through and once you see her vulnerable and dealing with love, her past, duty and tough choices about how to act in terms of certain orders she gets she may not agree with, navigating the tough crunch of Bajoran politics between people like Kai Winn, she becomes absolutely superb.

Again for me, a True example of a strong female character done right, she fights for what she believes, she’s a skilled warrior and tactician, but she also... Falls in love, makes mistakes, sometimes lets her feelings get the better of her, but she learns and changes and grows as an actual person does.

Always loved her character.
Kira is Trek's best character because of all the facets to her.

I saw something the other day that I'd never considered. In "If Wishes Were Horse" whilst all the rest of them are having fun imaginings about story characters and sports stars, Kira envisions a massive explosion and a man burning to death running right for her, a sign of just how the Occupation has left her with so much underlying trauma. This then ties into a line from "Way of the Warrior", where Dax is asking is she played make believe as a kid and Kira says she imagined the Cardassians leaving Bajor. She has no imagination or innocence because it was ripped away from her piece by piece, so she changed to deal with it--though as hard as she appeared on the outside, she wasn't stone and it all took its toll on her, so when she slowly starts to open up and allow herself to be vulnerable she finds new strength from within as well as those she now finds herself surrounded by.

I'll need to try and find the whole post again.
 
i'm in a re-watch just now and...
another observation at the last episode season 2 "the jem'Hadar"
vorta_telekinesis.gif

i totaly forgot about this, a Vorta with telekinetic powers,
we never see this again...
 
i'm in a re-watch just now and...
another observation at the last episode season 2 "the jem'Hadar"
vorta_telekinesis.gif

i totaly forgot about this, a Vorta with telekinetic powers,
we never see this again...
Apparently they decided after the fact that Vorta were disposable rather than super human, and that Eris was uniquely engineered with these powers.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
Ditto



Or the Moonies, et al. If this were a pure allegory to cults, it was a couple decades late to the party.



Except she was presented as being sincere and there was no significant undercurrent of deception (just hiding old technology and if I recall how Sisko and O'Brien were forced into landing?) She didn't seem like a Jonesy type.

And if Sisko were the analogue of Leo Ryan, I didn't see it. But it's nice to have some twists than a by-the-numbers remake, of which many real life shows utilized.
Sisko may have been no Leo Ryan, but I do hope that he was as tough on Alixus as he was on Eddington and the Maquis.

Alixus didn't drink her own kool-aid at the end; she turned herself in. I hope Sisko threw the book at her when they got back to the station, especially because she made him spend a torturous amount of time in that sweatbox, as well as her denying real medical care for the sick.

"Paradise" had a good story, but I didn't see it as necessarily an allegory to cults. I don't recall the colonists worshipping her as some divine figure. Alixus was surely an authoritarian, and maybe she did have god complex; but her approach to life (for the colonists) seemed more ideological, or quasi scientific, rather than religious.

The colonists seemed to have resigned themselves to their fate on that planet. They didn't know Alixus fraudulently "crash landed" them on that planet and then forced them to live off the grid. They seemed to have followed her lead out of necessity. But what didn't seem too believable was that the colonists weren't up in arms outraged at her, after O'Brien exposed her fraud.




The very last scene of the episode, I found intriguing. Those two kids were just standing there and staring in the direction of the sweatbox where Sisko, O'Brien, Alixus and her son had just beamed off the planet.

They probably never saw anything like that before, if they were born on the planet. They would not have ever seen such technology before, let alone be aware of such technology.

I am curious if the message of that last scene was that while their parents and other adults may have been content to live the rest of their lives on that planet and off the grid, the kids would be denied the opportunity to experience and to interact with the wonders of the wider galaxy. The children would metaphorically be stuck in that box of a planet.

Their situation may be synonymous with parents who leave the city with their children and move to some isolated rural place because they think it would be a better place to raise a family. But would the kids be really better off growing up in such relative isolation?

Maybe I read too much into the story. In any case, I liked the episode.

The next episode, "Shadowplay", I also enjoyed. It was also the type of story about wayward or rogue colonists. Usually the episodes about colonists present stories that show a different way of life or a different way of thinking about life. Good stories.
 
And yet Duet could easily have been a TNG episode (using Ro instead of Kira) with the most minimal of changes. :)
Because Ro and Kira were both Bajorans who were in one way or other affected by the occupation?

Sorry, but Ro simply did not confront the occupation the way Kira did. Having been displaced, growing up in a refugee camp likely gave her experienced to rail against. Kira, on the other hand, was seemingly invovled in the effort of liberate Bajor as soon as she was sufficiently mature. Kira was not merely aware of the details of the Bajorans struggles, she lived them, and in some cases, she was the author of those details. I doubt that Ro would have even known of the connection between the disease and the very camp Kira helped liberate.
 
We're still keeping pace with the H&I schedule on DS9 and last night we finished Season 2 with "The Jem'Hadar". That episode was such a game-changer. It starts off as an innocent, near-comedy, with the Ferengi tagging along on Sisko's getaway with Jake. Quark was used as the comedy catalyst and it all seemed so mild. Then Eris enters and the whole episode - indeed, the whole SERIES - is now profoundly changed.

I remember watching the episode when it first aired and seeing the Odyssey docked at DS9, and then in the battle, it gets destroyed, and I couldn't help but think that the guys in special effects were just dying to blow up the Enterprise-D.

Great episode - and great things ahead.
 
We're still keeping pace with the H&I schedule on DS9 and last night we finished Season 2 with "The Jem'Hadar". That episode was such a game-changer. It starts off as an innocent, near-comedy, with the Ferengi tagging along on Sisko's getaway with Jake. Quark was used as the comedy catalyst and it all seemed so mild. Then Eris enters and the whole episode - indeed, the whole SERIES - is now profoundly changed.

I remember watching the episode when it first aired and seeing the Odyssey docked at DS9, and then in the battle, it gets destroyed, and I couldn't help but think that the guys in special effects were just dying to blow up the Enterprise-D.

Great episode - and great things ahead.

H&I really is perfect for watching the 4 series from start to finish.
 
We're still keeping pace with the H&I schedule on DS9 and last night we finished Season 2 with "The Jem'Hadar". That episode was such a game-changer. It starts off as an innocent, near-comedy, with the Ferengi tagging along on Sisko's getaway with Jake. Quark was used as the comedy catalyst and it all seemed so mild. Then Eris enters and the whole episode - indeed, the whole SERIES - is now profoundly changed.

I remember watching the episode when it first aired and seeing the Odyssey docked at DS9, and then in the battle, it gets destroyed, and I couldn't help but think that the guys in special effects were just dying to blow up the Enterprise-D.

Great episode - and great things ahead.

Yes, I love the "surprise!" aspect of that show. You thought it was just a Ferengi episode??
 
Oh yeah, the change in tone is one of the thing that makes the episode great. You think you're in for something fun and stupid, and then it gets real but not necessarily dire. Then the E-D...er, Odyssey starts taking a pounding and that's bad, but hey, they're leaving, so they got a bloody nose but...oh damn...

I'm pretty sure if ISB had his way that would have been the E-D. Keogh even looks a bit like Picard. :) In other words, it kind of was a way to blow up the E-D without actually doing so.

Having the Jem'hadar do a suicide run just to make a point in some ways told us everything we'd need to know about the Dominion.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top