I am watching DS9 for the first time (some observations)

[CRM-114]

Hey everyone and anyone still checking in on this thread...

I'm kind of in a weird place right now in my feelings toward Star Trek. Part of me wants to keep going with DS9 because I've really enjoyed it. On the flip side, I'm increasingly aware that Trek doesn't hold my attention the way it used to; it doesn't help that I'm presently 0-2 on the recent series, although PIC took longer than DSC to lose steam (for me, anyway).

I might come back to it at some point but for now, I may just let things lie fallow for a while.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Hey everyone and anyone still checking in on this thread...

I'm kind of in a weird place right now in my feelings toward Star Trek. Part of me wants to keep going with DS9 because I've really enjoyed it. On the flip side, I'm increasingly aware that Trek doesn't hold my attention the way it used to; it doesn't help that I'm presently 0-2 on the recent series, although PIC took longer than DSC to lose steam (for me, anyway).

I might come back to it at some point but for now, I may just let things lie fallow for a while.

It depends on which season (series) you are on. Lots of times there are a couple of lemons. The only Trek series I can't really handle is the Original series.
Of late I'm even getting into one I thought I would hate, "Voyager" and the other one that might be passable, "Enterprise".
But even in my limited watching, there have been a couple that were cringe-worthy.
Maybe you are 'virus bummed' right now.
Maybe take a break for a week or two.
I think the DS9 was one of the most serially interesting ones.

 

[DonIago]

I strongly recommend watching at least as far as "The Jem'hadar" before making any strong decisions on whether to continue your viewing. I think most would agree that there's a significant tonal shift in the series that begins at that point.

N.B. theoretically you could skip to that episode, decide whether you want to watch more, and then backtrack.

 

[CRM-114]

I strongly recommend watching at least as far as "The Jem'hadar" before making any strong decisions on whether to continue your viewing. I think most would agree that there's a significant tonal shift in the series that begins at that point.

N.B. theoretically you could skip to that episode, decide whether you want to watch more, and then backtrack.

Right now, I’m a little over halfway through Season 2. I’ve left off during “Paradise”.

 

[Lynx]

Right now, I’m a little over halfway through Season 2. I’ve left off during “Paradise”.

My advice is: take two weeks or so off, then go back to DS9. You won't be dissapointed. It's really worth watching from beginning to end

 

[Farscape One]

Agreed.

 

[DonIago]

Right now, I’m a little over halfway through Season 2. I’ve left off during “Paradise”.

Cool cool. Doesn't change my advice.

There's at least one other cool episode along the way that immediately comes to mind, but I don't immediately recall another in the season with the same scope.

"Paradise" pisses me off.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Cool cool. Doesn't change my advice.

There's at least one other cool episode along the way that immediately comes to mind, but I don't immediately recall another in the season with the same scope.

"Paradise" pisses me off.

Really?
What pissed you off?
I like the episode very much.

 

[DonIago]

That all of what's-her-face's people have been so brainwashed by what she inflicted on them that in the end none of them want to leave the planet. That none of them even seem remotely upset by the way she manipulated them.

It's just like the way in VOY it's almost unprecedented when anyone wants to leave the ship.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I'm kind of in a weird place right now in my feelings toward Star Trek. Part of me wants to keep going with DS9 because I've really enjoyed it. On the flip side, I'm increasingly aware that Trek doesn't hold my attention the way it used to; it doesn't help that I'm presently 0-2 on the recent series, although PIC took longer than DSC to lose steam (for me, anyway).

I think DS9 has the right mix of old style Trek and the newer serialized style that's popular. It makes it a lot easier to rewatch especially in reruns, IMO.

I used to think the first couple of seasons were boring, but upon reruns and re-watches, even some of them are pretty meaty, especially if you pay attention to the dialog. Like Duet and Paradise- it's the dialog that gets you, and you won't really find it in the previous shows.

I can agree on DIS as I first watched it up to about a season and a half and then just gradually lost interest and let it evaporate. I don't even really know what's going on in the show now, which is pretty unusual. Otherwise I would treat it as 'must see viewing," but it just wasn't there.

And Picard and it plots and pacing can seem a little off.

Some of the newer Trek shows may seem too awkward to get the hang of, and the older shows may seem too limited and dated, so it's about finding a good balance. Which is why I found I like DS9.

Maybe you might get a different view of Picard at least, after fully taking in DS9 or Voyager.

 

[CRM-114]

I think DS9 has the right mix of old style Trek and the newer serialized style that's popular. It makes it a lot easier to rewatch especially in reruns, IMO.

I used to think the first couple of seasons were boring, but upon reruns and re-watches, even some of them are pretty meaty, especially if you pay attention to the dialog. Like Duet and Paradise- it's the dialog that gets you, and you won't really find it in the previous shows.

I can agree on DIS as I first watched it up to about a season and a half and then just gradually lost interest and let it evaporate. I don't even really know what's going on in the show now, which is pretty unusual. Otherwise I would treat it as 'must see viewing," but it just wasn't there.

And Picard and it plots and pacing can seem a little off.

Some of the newer Trek shows may seem too awkward to get the hang of, and the older shows may seem too limited and dated, so it's about finding a good balance. Which is why I found I like DS9.

Maybe you might get a different view of Picard at least, after fully taking in DS9 or Voyager.

With Picard, I made it as far as episode nine. With DSC, I only got as far as halfway through season one.

For me, I think my biggest gripe with both shows is simply the writing. Both shows start with interesting premises but falter in the execution. With the shorter seasons, the writing needs to be sharper in terms of storytelling and characterization. With both series, the writing isn’t sharper, it’s shallower. DSC did way too much telling rather than showing; having given up on the show so early, I couldn’t say whether it improves in this way or not. PIC takes too long to get the main plot going, and once it does, it never really has the dramatic weight it should. The show insists that things are deeply important, but that importance is inorganic. It also doesn’t help that once the main plot aboard the La Sirena gets going, the show jettisons two of its most interesting characters in Laris and Zhaban.

 

[USS Firefly]

My advice is: take two weeks or so off, then go back to DS9. You won't be dissapointed. It's really worth watching from beginning to end

Good advice!

 

[Nightdiamond]

With Picard, I made it as far as episode nine. With DSC, I only got as far as halfway through season one.

For me, I think my biggest gripe with both shows is simply the writing. Both shows start with interesting premises but falter in the execution. With the shorter seasons, the writing needs to be sharper in terms of storytelling and characterization. With both series, the writing isn’t sharper, it’s shallower. DSC did way too much telling rather than showing; having given up on the show so early, I couldn’t say whether it improves in this way or not. PIC takes too long to get the main plot going, and once it does, it never really has the dramatic weight it should. The show insists that things are deeply important, but that importance is inorganic. It also doesn’t help that once the main plot aboard the La Sirena gets going, the show jettisons two of its most interesting characters in Laris and Zhaban.

This is pretty much my view on it too. I actually wished they kept everything more simple and just left out the Synth Prophecies and conspiracies. To me, it was all too convoluted and bloated. Certain behaviors and sequences seemed odd or awkward. Everything wrapped up quickly.

To me it was just interesting enough to see what life on earth was like and how the AQ in the 24th-25th century was doing.

Just sticking with the Synth issue on earth, and whether the Federation had changed and the Romulans refugee issue would have been interesting enough.

 

[CRM-114]

This is pretty much my view on it too. I actually wished they kept everything more simple and just left out the Synth Prophecies and conspiracies. To me, it was all too convoluted and bloated. Certain behaviors and sequences seemed odd or awkward. Everything wrapped up quickly.

To me it was just interesting enough to see what life on earth was like and how the AQ in the 24th-25th century was doing.

Just sticking with the Synth issue on earth, and whether the Federation had changed and the Romulans refugee issue would have been interesting enough.

There are moments in the show where it feels like there’s too much plot, such that none of it gets serviced as well as it should.

 

[DonIago]

This is pretty much my view on it too. I actually wished they kept everything more simple and just left out the Synth Prophecies and conspiracies. To me, it was all too convoluted and bloated. Certain behaviors and sequences seemed odd or awkward. Everything wrapped up quickly.

To me it was just interesting enough to see what life on earth was like and how the AQ in the 24th-25th century was doing.

Just sticking with the Synth issue on earth, and whether the Federation had changed and the Romulans refugee issue would have been interesting enough.

Please put info about Picard in spoiler tags. Some of us haven't watched it yet and would like to in the future. Thanks!

 

[Nightdiamond]

Please put info about Picard in spoiler tags. Some of us haven't watched it yet and would like to in the future. Thanks!

You got it. Sorry about that. Any info on Picard will get spoilers from now on.

 

[RAMA]

DSC had a good 2-part pilot but I could see how it seems isolated from the rest of the series. Episode 3 grabbed me and it never let go. I now consider "Context is for Kings" a modern Trek classic. It was light years better than the first couple of seasons of DS9.

DS9 is somewhat inconsistent and has a lot of filler (unlike DSC) but it's very worthwhile. Trekkies who skipped it the first time around will eventually get through to some really good episodes and some good mini-arcs. I rank the show 3rd overall out of the best Trek series.

RAMA

A little over a year ago, I started this thread in the DSC forum:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/should-i-give-discovery-another-chance.292885/

I asked if I should consider giving DSC another chance, having quit six episodes into Season One. Despite a litany of opinions on either side of the matter, I ultimately never revisited DSC. Whatever technical achievements the show has going for it, the storytelling felt very superficial. I wasn't invested in the characters or their stories the way I ideally should be.

So, what does that have to do with DS9?

Until last night (May 19th, as I write this), I had never seen an entire episode of DS9 beyond "Emissary". I distinctly remember watching it with my dad on the old TV in my parents' bedroom when it first aired in January 1993. I didn't remember anything about the plot other the opening scene at Wolf 359. I seem to recall liking it, but Dad and I didn't hang with the show. I remember years later catching part of Take Me Out to the Holosuite, while doing some chores. Until now, that was the extent of my DS9 viewing experience.

After being disappointed with DSC, I realized I still had an entirely new series to watch from the beginning. Admittedly, I wasn't sure about how much I would enjoy DS9, as my disappointment with DSC made me wonder if there was anything left in Star Trek worth finding.

Being only two episodes in, I can say that DS9 has managed to grab me in a way DSC had been at most partially successful after six episodes. The storytelling and the characterizations feel sharper; DS9 uses its' storytelling to make its' points, whereas DSC often felt like storytelling was sacrificed in order for the point to be made.

I plan to keep this thread ongoing, if only perhaps to record my own experience with a new (old) series that made me think Star Trek still had something to offer when DSC made me question that.

 

[DonIago]

The first couple of seasons of DS9 has "Duet" if nothing else...and it doesn't have nothing else...so I'm going to have to beg to differ.

 

[Lynx]

That all of what's-her-face's people have been so brainwashed by what she inflicted on them that in the end none of them want to leave the planet. That none of them even seem remotely upset by the way she manipulated them.

It's just like the way in VOY it's almost unprecedented when anyone wants to leave the ship.

I must admit that I find the scenario in the episode highly realistic.

Haven't you read about all those crazy cults, like Jim Jones and Jonestown where people were so brainwashed that they drank poison because Jim Jones told them to do so?

I thinkt that the story in "Paradise" tells a similar story. The whole population has become a cult, led by a ruthless fanatic who stops at nothing to preserve the "paradise" and her followers don't dare to question her decisions.

The comparision with Voyager is a bit unfair since Voyager is no cult like that one in "Paradise" but a ship trying to find a way home. As long as this goal for the crew existed, that was enough for the crew members to stay on the ship.

The alternative should have been to jump of somewhere along the road, spending the rest of their lives with the Kazon, the Sikaris or "The 37's". Maybe not the best option, OK I'm a little surprised that no one stayed on "The 37's" planet but in that case a great moment of Voyager would have missed itäs mark, the moment when Janeway and Chakotay are going to the cargo bay to say goodbye to those who wanted to leave and there's no one there.

However, there is an excellent Voyager book called "The Black Shore", written by Greg Cox which takes place in the beginning of season 3, according to my calculations.

Voyager arrives to the planet which are inhabited by a small but very nice and friendly population. Wonderful people, wonderful place, a sunny beach and some crewmembers are actually considering to stay there. Until some of them starts to notice small things which give hints about something which isn't what it should be....................

Read it, if you get the opportunity! Very exciting!

 

[Farscape One]

I have that novel. And I remember thinking back then that the title very much reminded me of the intro to a series called TALES FROM THE DARKSIDE. Begins with a beautiful, bucolic setting... but there is another side to it that is dark and foreboding.

(A good show, too. Ran for 4 years. I have the box sets. Developed by the same people who did the series MONSTERS. That one had a 3 year run, which was directly after the previous show ended.)