Do people still insist that Final Frontier isn't canon?
”Afraid” of the new Picard series?
- Thread starter JesterFace
- Start date
Of course we do! My whole point is: that's our power as individual fans. We get to decide what we like, what we'll nitpick, what we'll watch over and over, what we won't watch, what we'll hate, and what we'll be indifferent to. What we don't have is the ability to excise those things we don't like out of the canon or universe. For any franchise to exist there has to be a single shared epistemic base. It can't work any other way.
I think you and I are in agreement as to our opinions when it happens, but where you say they 'cannot do a thing' , all I am saying is that they do the thing and will happily continue to do it regardless of if it is right or wrong. At the end of the day, Trek is whatever Paramount and CBS decides it is as it is their property. The Roddenberry purists and those that despise Abrams' additions to the properties are deluding themselves if they think otherwise.
Even First Contact? I mean, what?
I'm not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If I don't like a Star Trek project it's because I don't like the writing or it's just not my style. But productions change over time. And then they change again. All of it's canon. Even if I jokingly say "What's that?" sometimes.
Picard is top-notch. It's continuing the story of TNG and VOY in interesting ways and those weren't even my favorite versions of Star Trek, so PIC had a steep hill to climb with me, but climb it they did.
Picard is top-notch. It's continuing the story of TNG and VOY in interesting ways and those weren't even my favorite versions of Star Trek, so PIC had a steep hill to climb with me, but climb it they did.
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Are you afraid how the new Picard series might change the way you look at TNG? A discussion related to this is in another thread about Lal and could she appear in 'Picard'.
I'm not afraid I guess but a little bit concerned. Obviously it's been twenty years and people change even in scifi.... but still, how may that affect the way we see certain people, Picard being the first in line. After 'Picard' are some scenes different in TNG? ”Future Picard would have done that differently” etc.
If a character like Lal would appear, would that somehow ”ruin” episode 'The Offspring'? Depending on what would happen of course. What about other characters? One example could be Worf's brother Kurn. I think DS9 completely messed up by erasing his memory, then lying to him and making him someone completely different. (if anyone likes that episode, sorry, but I think that was dumb and also a discussion to be had somewhere else, that would be too off topic?)
TNG is my favourite series and for a TV series it means almost too much for me. I wouldn't like it to be messed up with 'Picard'. That won't happen most likely but I'm nervous, maybe I shouldn't be. It's just that once you've watched an episode, it's pretty much impossible to unwatch it.
As I type this, this sound stupid.... sorry for wasting your time if you read this far.
EDIT - Should this topic be in TNG forum?
No, it won't change the way I look at TNG because TNG will always be TNG whatever happens.
It's the same for me as Voyager became when Kes was dumped. The first three seasons of that series will still be watchable and likeable for me, no matter what happened after those seasons.
The only thing I'm "afraid" of when it comes to "Picard" is that some itchy-fingederd producer will start messing up things which was established in TNG or kill of or destroy some TNG main character from that series.
However, I do hope for the best.
Seems overly convoluted. But, what ever gets you through the night.
It's pretty linear. Two comes after one and three comes after two.No more convoluted than trying to make it all fit together.
When there is blatantly contradictory things, then it all literally cannot fit together. Now, one can shrug and say 'it's just a TV show.' And that's fine, but ultimately that is the same thing than Billj is doing except less formulaic.
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That's just the nature of the "business". Canon and continuity is mutable. Its a living thing changing and growing with time. With out that you get stagnation. Keeping it fresh is even more important when dealing with a fictional future.
None of that changes the fact that it all literally cannot be part of the same continuity, which I believe ultimately was Billj's point.
To be perfectly honest it all reasonably fits into the same continuity apart from Discovery. The technology and the Klingons are at odds with established continuity. Visually they can't fit in. The writers of that show took a creative choice with the technology that was understandable for a 2018 production and we need to let that go. There's no way the 60s visuals were going to be used. It would be laughed off the screen. However, Discovery looks so different to TOS there's no way you can suspend disbelief enough to accept it takes place 10 years before.
As for the Klingons, it was an unnecessary change done just because they could. It doesn't look better and it doesn't improve the species. They look ridiculous and are more boring and bland than ever before. We now have a situation where ENT presents them as TNG era looking, explains why they looked human in TOS, Discovery fucks that all up by making them look like space orcs 10 years before TOS and we finally settle back down to the movie era/TNG era Klingons which is how they're supposed to look according to ENT. Why Discovery felt the need to reinvent an already convuluted wheel I'll never know but it is hard to take it at face value as in continuity even though officially it is.
As for the Klingons, it was an unnecessary change done just because they could. It doesn't look better and it doesn't improve the species. They look ridiculous and are more boring and bland than ever before. We now have a situation where ENT presents them as TNG era looking, explains why they looked human in TOS, Discovery fucks that all up by making them look like space orcs 10 years before TOS and we finally settle back down to the movie era/TNG era Klingons which is how they're supposed to look according to ENT. Why Discovery felt the need to reinvent an already convuluted wheel I'll never know but it is hard to take it at face value as in continuity even though officially it is.
What's strange to me with Picard is the corrupt Starfleet stuff hasn't bugged me as much as I thought nor the different visual look being very different from TNG. The part that feels weird is the way to contemporary speak. The date Daja had with the one alien felt like it could have come right out of "Riverdale" and even the alien sounded like a modern day hipster. Picard is the only person who sounds like he isn't living in 2020. Also the science feels less authentic then it did back during the Berman era. You got to give tenchnobabble credit. It made far fetched idea's sound plausible and consistent. Every since the Kelvinverse some of the science though has felt more like fantasy or magic.
Jason
Jason
Except it can and it is! Even if you need to do mental gymnastics to fit DSC in, it is. And STP is most definitely in the same continuity as TNG. Despite any visual or vernacular differences.
Fuller wanted them to be more alien.
I think they fit fine for me. But, I also figure an interstellar empire might have a lot more variation than ever presented on screen.
Of course this show isn't a "sequel" to Star Trek: The Next Generation.
It's a "Spin-Off".
If it were a sequel it would have been called STAR TREK : PICARD - The Next Generation.
Just like MAUDE and THE JEFFERSONS are not sequels to ALL IN THE FAMILY, but have many of the same characters present.
Or like how "GOMER PYLE: USMC" & "MAYBERRY: RFD" are spin-offs to "THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW".
Or, just imagine this...
How STAR TREK: The Next Generation; Deepspace-9; Voyager; and Enterprise are all spin-offs to The Original Series.
Wow... can you imagine that!
It's a "Spin-Off".
If it were a sequel it would have been called STAR TREK : PICARD - The Next Generation.
Just like MAUDE and THE JEFFERSONS are not sequels to ALL IN THE FAMILY, but have many of the same characters present.
Or like how "GOMER PYLE: USMC" & "MAYBERRY: RFD" are spin-offs to "THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW".
Or, just imagine this...
How STAR TREK: The Next Generation; Deepspace-9; Voyager; and Enterprise are all spin-offs to The Original Series.
Wow... can you imagine that!
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If those 'mental gymnastics' mean ignoring what we see and hear, then sure. But how is that more sensible than not ignoring anything and just saying that they're different continuities?
The mental gymnastics for DSC are mostly story based, in-universe (classifying everything because of Control). Kludgy, but it is what it is. Visual differences are almost always due to out-of-universe production issues and it’s wrong to assign in-universe explanations (separate timelines, whatever) to these external things
