”Afraid” of the new Picard series?

[Noname Given]

I think it's both with also a "We need this for CBS All Access because Discovery hasn't been the hit we were expecting.)


Jason

Um if Discovery wasn't a hit, CBS wouldn't have continued to renew it, or give it's creative lead a 5 year $5 million dollar deal or let him create more Star Trek series for CBSAA and Nickelodeon like Lower Decks, Section 31 <--- which yes, will start filming Season 1 in May from the latest reports; or the OTHER TWO live action series in the works. In Hollywood, they usually DON'T reward failure with a lucrative contract, and a green light to continue developing projects by the team that failed.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think it's both with also a "We need this for CBS All Access because Discovery hasn't been the hit we were expecting.)

You say that a lot, so it must be true.

 

[Jayson1]

You say that a lot, so it must be true.

I do? I think I have said I don't like the serious lead and the show is medicore but I don't think I have ever talked about ratings or popularity. I have heard the show isn't doing all that well at least compared to expectations. I don't think it's a risk of being cancelled until they basically have more Trek replacements but it also didn't explode in the way "The Madorlorian" did. Something that was more part of the public consciousness. I think they were hoping it was going to be bigger somehow but the biggest news it's ever seem to generate is behind the scenes drama.

Jason

 

[BillJ]

Um id Di8scovery wasn't a hit, CBS wouldn't have continued to renew it, or give it's creative lead a 5 year $5 million dollar deal or let him create more Star Trek series for CBSAA and Nickelodeon like Lower Decks, Section 31 <--- which yes, will start filming Season 1 in May from the latest reports; or the OTHER TWO live action series in the works. In Hollywood, they usually DON'T reward failure with a lucrative contract, and a green light to continue developing projects by the team that failed.

I think what they are doing is a success. At the same time, I wonder if they are growing the brand in any significant way? Where are we at in ten years when most of the TOS/TNG diehards are either dead or too old to matter?

I saw something the other day where Picard had drawn 10 million viewers, which is pretty good. But The Witcher on Netflix had 76 million.

 

[Noname Given]

I think what they are doing is a success. At the same time, I wonder if they are growing the brand in any significant way? Where are we at in ten years when most of the TOS/TNG diehards are either dead or too old to matter?

Trek has been adding fans through all it's various incarnations over the years - including new fans catching 'reruns' on modern streaming services. Why would anyone assume all (or even most of either TOS or TNG 'diehards' are all in their 40es to 60es+).

I was 3 when TOS premired, and yes, I saw a few episodes of the 3rd seasaon and liked the show when I was 6; but honestly, I didn't start really getting into it again until I was 12 (I had watched and liked some of TAS - but even at age 10 and 11, I didn't like the change in the music/theme, and I thought the animated stories weren't as good as what I remembered.

I didn't really get a chance to see all of the live action TOS until I was 12 and KTLA 5 started running the series consistently on Weekends in 1975 - and afdter seeing the entire series pretty much in production order - then I was really hooked.

So yeah, my point: Especially with the way streaming is these days; as well as other stations that still do reruns of the various series - don't assume Star trek isn't still getting new fans for ANY of the series, new and old.

 

[JesterFace]

Of course we do! My whole point is: that's our power as individual fans. We get to decide what we like, what we'll nitpick, what we'll watch over and over, what we won't watch, what we'll hate, and what we'll be indifferent to. What we don't have is the ability to excise those things we don't like out of the canon or universe. For any franchise to exist there has to be a single shared epistemic base. It can't work any other way.

Sorry for misunderstanding, I though you meant everything must be accepted to enjoy Star Trek fully.

Even First Contact? I mean, what?

Without 'Generations' between 'All Good Things...' and 'First Contact' it would be kind of weird.
And it has the Queen, while Alice Krige was amazing as the Queen the whole Queen/insect concept ruined the Borg. So, I stay away from anything with the Queen in it.

 

[Qonundrum]

I think it's both with also a "We need this for CBS All Access because Discovery hasn't been the hit we were expecting.)


Jason

Hit or not, TNG offers plethora of possibilities for raking in more money in ways YADP* can not, so it's not surprising. Getting in Stewart is a coup to guarantee ratings either way, for a while. Of course, turning the future into something dreary yet again... That's what got Stewart interested in returning?! If nothing else, PIC may take the plot themes of INS and a handful of TNG plots and one-up them. Way too early to tell.

* YADP = Yet Another Dreary Prequel

 

[El Maestro]

Hit or not, TNG offers plethora of possibilities for raking in more money in ways YADP* can not, so it's not surprising. Getting in Stewart is a coup to guarantee ratings either way, for a while. Of course, turning the future into something dreary yet again... That's what got Stewart interested in returning?! If nothing else, PIC may take the plot themes of INS and a handful of TNG plots and one-up them. Way too early to tell.

* YADP = Yet Another Dreary Prequel

Nothing to add here except I really enjoy the YADP framing. Thank you. After The Phantom Menace the whole genre has been in the grip of prequel fever and it got OLD.

 

[fireproof78]

Depends on the prequel .

 

[Lord Garth]

There's something to be learned from history. The die-hardiest "We want '60s Trek!" people wanted something more like TOS. Guess what happened during the 2000s and 2010s? There was a hardcore backlash against TNG and anything having to do with that era. Especially after Nemesis. After VOY ended, Star Trek went Pre-TOS and it stayed Pre-TOS or in close proximity to TOS all the way up until 2020.

Let's run through the list: We had ENT, the Abrams Films, and DSC. If you want to count the first portion of this season's batch of Short Treks, we got a taste of what a Pike Series might look like. So four different versions of TOS/Pre-TOS made by three different production teams: Rick Berman, JJ Abrams, and finally Alex Kurtzman. Between all of those, you'd think those old-schoolers would like at least one of them. Some of them did. I did (mainly DSC, the one that I think kicks the most ass! ). But certain other people? They didn't like any of them. They didn't want more like TOS, they wanted exactly like TOS. For the ones who didn't like ANY of what's come out in the last two decades, what they really wanted, even if they didn't come right out and say it, was basically Star Trek Continues or Star Trek: New Voyages with better acting.

Long story short: Those certain hardcore TOSers who kept clamoring for a return to TOS-like Trek never got something they accepted. Now it's certain hardcore TNGers' turn. Picard is just the first Star Trek to return to something more like TNG and the people who don't accept it probably won't accept anything else that moves back more toward TNG, no matter who's putting it together.

 

[fireproof78]

For the ones who didn't like ANY of what's come out in the last two decades, what they really wanted, even if they didn't come right out and say it, was basically Star Trek Continues or Star Trek: New Voyages with better acting.

I truly believe this is the stance that is being taken, while ignoring all other factors.

 

[Alan Roi]

I do? I think I have said I don't like the serious lead and the show is medicore but I don't think I have ever talked about ratings or popularity. I have heard the show isn't doing all that well at least compared to expectations. I don't think it's a risk of being cancelled until they basically have more Trek replacements but it also didn't explode in the way "The Madorlorian" did. Something that was more part of the public consciousness. I think they were hoping it was going to be bigger somehow but the biggest news it's ever seem to generate is behind the scenes drama.

Jason

If only DISCO had come up with some kind of meme/plushy toy generator like Baby Yoda, which is what basically put The Mandalorian in the public consciousness.

 

[fireproof78]

If only DISCO had come up with some kind of meme/plushy toy generator like Baby Yoda, which is what basically put The Mandalorian in the public consciousness.

The plush tardigrades were a big missed opportunity

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Depends on the prequel .

Absolutely. If we didn't have prequels, we wouldn't have had Star Wars: The Clone Wars (or "the micro-series" Star Wars: Clone Wars or even Rebels for that matter). We wouldn't have had Wonder Woman (2017), and we wouldn't be getting Wonder Woman 1984, which I'm certainly looking forward to in the here and now, regardless of what I think of how it turned out later. When it comes to good or bad, it's not the concept, it's the execution.

 

[Alan Roi]

The plush tardigrades were a big missed opportunity

If only Ripper had been a baby that could be strolled around the Discovery... and be the focus of the entire series.

 

[Quinton]

I think what they are doing is a success. At the same time, I wonder if they are growing the brand in any significant way? Where are we at in ten years when most of the TOS/TNG diehards are either dead or too old to matter?

I saw something the other day where Picard had drawn 10 million viewers, which is pretty good. But The Witcher on Netflix had 76 million.

I’m curious, where did you see 10 million? All Access has nowhere near that number of subscribers, of course, and as far as I was aware we only had real metrics from Canada’s CraveTV network. Amazon sure as heck doesn’t offer data, and that’s where much of the world must catch the show.

For that matter, 76 million for The Witcher? That sounds crazy, even by Netflix standards. Are you certain you didn’t read analysis of data suggesting 76 million unique social media impressions? That information is easier to come by.

 

[Jayson1]

If only DISCO had come up with some kind of meme/plushy toy generator like Baby Yoda, which is what basically put The Mandalorian in the public consciousness.

Baby Yoda helped but the show was popular not just because the little guy looks cute. It's a great fun action show as well with tons of Star Wars elements in it. It's both kick ass yet also tender by showing a loving father/son relationship. It also understood as Star Wars that maybe not being political helps as well. Star Trek of course is different. We want Trek to be about exploring issues but of course it needs to balance that out with either a sense of fun or being adult enough that it truly feels like it has something worthwhile to say ala the new "Picard" show.

Discovery is IMO not playing to it's strengths. It's got the elements to be TOS-lite but it thinks it's deeper than it really is. The show has tons of characters that would make for fun lighthearted banter but instead it wants to be grim and focusing on the one character without much of a personality. I've always felt the show has not been taking advantage of it's strengths and is trying to be something it's not really cut out to be. Maybe things will be different in season 3. With Starfleet gone and no reason to follow the old rules we might get some of that Firefly,The Mandorlian spirit in it but if's just going to be about people being depressed because they can't go home that will get old fast. I also already worry about Yet another Burnham as the all important savior arc. I am so tired of saviors with destiny arcs.


Jason

 

[guyute03]

I'm not afraid at all. TNG was a very specific Trek galaxy, safe, the Feds usually came out on top, and now we're seeing that Trek galaxy go right to sh*t. Kinda feels like the world we live in now & I LOVE it.

 

[Alan Roi]

Baby Yoda helped but the show was popular not just because the little guy looks cute. It's a great fun action show as well with tons of Star Wars elements in it. It's both kick ass yet also tender by showing a loving father/son relationship. It also understood as Star Wars that maybe not being political helps as well. Star Trek of course is different. We want Trek to be about exploring issues but of course it needs to balance that out with either a sense of fun or being adult enough that it truly feels like it has something worthwhile to say ala the new "Picard" show.

Discovery is IMO not playing to it's strengths. It's got the elements to be TOS-lite but it thinks it's deeper than it really is. The show has tons of characters that would make for fun lighthearted banter but instead it wants to be grim and focusing on the one character without much of a personality. I've always felt the show has not been taking advantage of it's strengths and is trying to be something it's not really cut out to be. Maybe things will be different in season 3. With Starfleet gone and no reason to follow the old rules we might get some of that Firefly,The Mandorlian spirit in it but if's just going to be about people being depressed because they can't go home that will get old fast. I also already worry about Yet another Burnham as the all important savior arc. I am so tired of saviors with destiny arcs.


Jason

The Mandalorian is a savior with a destiny arc, and you don't mind. Picard will be a savior with a destiny arc, and you won't mind. Seems your aren't at all bothered by saviors with destiny arcs. It's just you don't like Burnham having one.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Guys, we can all relax. They haven't contradicted Star Trek: Renegades.

 

[Jayson1]

The Mandalorian is a savior with a destiny arc, and you don't mind. Picard will be a savior with a destiny arc, and you won't mind. Seems your aren't at all bothered by saviors with destiny arcs. It's just you don't like Burnham having one.

How is he a savior? He is just a bounty hunter who stumbled into a family when he couldn't give up the baby. Also Picard is not a savior. He is trying to help a girl out because he doesn't like how Data's legacy is being trampled on and she is connected to him. If anything the series seems to be playing more towards a mystery angle. Find the clues that will explain everything in the end from the Data's daughters to space 9/11 and what happened to Dr Maddox and in the backdrop of it all will be the politics of the Refuge and Synch situation.

Jason