”Afraid” of the new Picard series?
- Thread starter JesterFace
- Start date
Giving up means he is doing nothing. I just never got that from the character.
Are you afraid how the new Picard series might change the way you look at TNG? A discussion related to this is in another thread about Lal and could she appear in 'Picard'.
I'm not afraid I guess but a little bit concerned. Obviously it's been twenty years and people change even in scifi.... but still, how may that affect the way we see certain people, Picard being the first in line. After 'Picard' are some scenes different in TNG? ”Future Picard would have done that differently” etc.
If a character like Lal would appear, would that somehow ”ruin” episode 'The Offspring'? Depending on what would happen of course. What about other characters? One example could be Worf's brother Kurn. I think DS9 completely messed up by erasing his memory, then lying to him and making him someone completely different. (if anyone likes that episode, sorry, but I think that was dumb and also a discussion to be had somewhere else, that would be too off topic?)
TNG is my favourite series and for a TV series it means almost too much for me. I wouldn't like it to be messed up with 'Picard'. That won't happen most likely but I'm nervous, maybe I shouldn't be. It's just that once you've watched an episode, it's pretty much impossible to unwatch it.
As I type this, this sound stupid.... sorry for wasting your time if you read this far.
EDIT - Should this topic be in TNG forum?
I think you answered all of your questions/concerns in your own post. lol For me, no, I'm not worried at all. I'm not normally a circle jerk kind of person but when it comes to Star Trek I'll circle jerk with the best of them. All Star Trek is great. Is every episode a masterpiece of cinema? Absolutely not.... "Alamaraine!" Ugh... "I'm Beverly Cusher and I'm gonna get it on with Nana's space ghost boyfriend"... Ugh. "I'm Captain Cornwell and I'm going to have to suicide myself because this door only locks from the inside and those robots that are zooming around on the exterior of the ship apparently can't be bothered to come i here and pulll this lever. Oh, an don't worry Capt Pike, that little window in the door will protect you from this massive explosion." Ugh.
There are plenty of moments in Trek that leave me shaking my head. But, every series is fantastic. Can I rank all the series in a list regarding personal preference? Sure. Do I ignore or not watch any series because it's bad? Nope. On an intellectual level I understand people are different and we all can't like and dislike the same things. But from the part of my brain that loves Star Trek it boggles my mind when someone says something like "I can watch series "A" over an over! But I hate series "B" and never watch it. That doesn't compute with me. It never will.
Can I say I'm going to like the new Section 31 series, or a new Pike series, or the animated series even though I know nothing about them? Yup. I already love all of them and will watch them streaming and buy the Blu-Ray sets. Doesn't mean parts of shows or plot decisions won't annoy me. But Trek is Trek. :-)
Yet it's not a sequel to TNG, as said officially by the people in charge of making it. As a result, it's not taking place in our TNG universe - or it's okay to think that. That is as fair a conclusion as anything else.
It's almost an inverse of when we were told DSC was in the same universe as TOS even though a number of fans going against that grain and saying it worked when placed in Kelvinverse or its own realm because plot or other elements stick out (I disagree with them regarding f/x, even ENT couldn't resort to plain neutral gray bulkheads, but I digress). In other words, people are going to think what they want despite what they're told by the show's makers. Especially if the material therein doesn't match up. The makers saying it's not a sequel just allows more open-ended possibilities. And people can believe it is all they want as well.
Point blank, it is not a sequel - says the producer outright:
https://comicbook.com/startrek/2019/12/29/star-trek-picard-next-generation-not-a-sequel/
It is a spinoff, that one was a poor choice of wording on my part. A spinoff isn't a sequel per se.
Officially it's all Canon. That doesn't mean it all links together perfectly. Discovery is a whopping big boil on the ass of Canon. Enterprise just about manages to fit in. The rest of the shows have their issues visually and continuity wise but it mostly hangs together. Everyone is going to take what they want from Star Trek and disregard what they don't. I'm taking it all except Discovery. Not specifically because of the bad continuity and visuals but because it sucks to the high heavens as a standalone series and the main cast is the worst in the whole franchise. Others will gladly eat everything up and that's their prerogative. We're lucky to have so much content that we can cherry pick what appeals to us and what doesn't.
How would any TV show affect another that was made a quarter-century earlier and by completely different people?
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
The only thing I was "afraid" of, regarding PIC, was that I thought they were going to make Starfleet and the Federation the bad guys. Apparently this is not the case. So I'm more optimistic about it now.
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Perhaps Starfleet and the Federation always knew something about events that he doesnt and had no choice, after all this time perhaps they are looking to put it right.
Giving him a nudge in the right direction could be the start of it, Dahj's attackers were suspicious from the start, at this point I am not convinced she is dead, either way it was enough to finally shove Picard out of his malaise and perhaps that was the whole idea.
Dahj was not in on it though, at least not consciously but who knows what information she has in her head.
I think the main negative thing that Picard will do for me is curb my enthusiasm for Discovery. I enjoyed it, and will continue to watch because it's Star Trek back on TV. But this is a step beyond. It might just be because I grew up on TNG era (I will have been 8, when it first aired in the UK, and I watched it from then), but my enthusiasm for Disco was going down ever since they announced Picard.
Hopefully, once this season is over, and more Disco details start to emerge, that will change.
Hopefully, once this season is over, and more Disco details start to emerge, that will change.
I'm hoping a change in setting will reengage my interest in Discovery.
Except that's not how it works. Each individual is not entitled to their own canonical universe for the entertainment properties they consume. To be sure, we each have aspects of a large and expansive universe like Trek that we might favor over others, and we will even have episodes of our preferred shows that we will like better, but we do not have the ability to disavow things from the wider universe.
As an example, I cannot find a single redeeming thing about NEM. It is, in my opinion, a complete misfire in terms of plot, characterization, and tone. I find it to be a complete bastardization of TNG, its setting, and characters. And yet, I do not get to decide that it doesn't count or that it is not in the same universe as the Inner Light.
Individuals are able to choose what they like and what they don't; they can choose what to watch and what not to watch. They do not have the ability to decide what counts as canon or what universe these things take place in.
All of this is a distinction without a difference. STP and TNG are in the same universe. It's the only way it works. TPTB were referring to how it is not a rehash of TNG's tone/formula. But it takes place at a chronological point after the events of TNG and continues Picard's (and maybe TNG characters') story and character arc.
Sure they do in terms of their personal perception. I don't like the term "head canon" but it fits. I don't have to accept it all as one unit if it doesn't line up in terms of storytelling continuity.
Now, that has no bearing on CBS or their choices. But, my perception is just that-mine.
I don't think that's what they want at all. Don't forget that the entire franchise has been in the grip of TOS nostalgia from after NEM until STP premiered last week. So much so that they had to do all kinds of contortions to fit DSC into the universe because they wanted to set it in the near TOS era.
While the new 1701 in DSC doesn't bother me (I actually really like it), I do think it was unnecessary to retcon the design of the ship.
But a head canon does not allow people to make blanket pronouncements about what universe things take place in. Not saying you've done this, but it happens a lot here.
It's funny because a lot of what I'm anticipating in Picard is finding out what is going on with the Trekverse 20 years later. And Discovery S3 has the exact same lure, but 900ish years later.
Lots of pronouncements get made here. With Picard coming back I've read "proper Trek is back." That bothers me; a lot.
But, that's the perception. And no arguing is going to change it. Instead, I'd rather meet on common ground. "Was it entertaining? Did I connect with the characters? What surprised me? How was the story?"
The universe is not the important question for me in the conversation. I love the Kelvin films and think they capture the spirit of TOS better than other shows or films. The universe is irrelevant to that enjoyment.
And, even if we don't agree on every detail we can we agree to engage with the story.
Except that people do it anyway all the time. You will find people on this page that are convinced that Star Trek of any medium is only Star Trek if approved by the late Gene Roddenberry. That is their canon. So season 5 of TNG is questionable at best given Gene's health at the time and anything after is right out. No season 6 or 7 of TNG or their movies, no DS9, VOY, ENT.
I couldn't tell you how many times on this very page I have seen people point blank say that the Abrams films are NOT Star Trek.
I'm not saying its right or its wrong, but is comes down to a difference of opinion and having the freedom of voice that opinion. Case in point, I thought Nemesis was fine.
We definitely agree there. The only accurate thing to say is JLP is back.
I definitely agree with this too, including your take on the Kelvin movies, for the most part (STID was a little inexplicable in places).
I think we're not as opposed. My issue is with the fans who write off an entire series or whatever in the franchise as being in a separate universe because they don't like it. I don't begrudge the not liking it part! But no one except TBTP can decide what universe these things happen in, for better or worse, is what I'm arguing.
It might or it might not affect anything. It's been a while since the last TNG episode but there will be same characters and some plots that connect. The overall feel of the characters decades later might change someones view on them. In a good way or in a bad way, we don't know yet.
But we get to choose what we want to consume? There are episodes I don't like, so I skip them, quite simple.
That movie.... it's just so weak, I don't remember when I had anything to do with it and I believe it will stay that way for a long time. 'Nemesis' may be official canon but it's not in my personal canon. None of the TNG movies are in my canon.
Headcanon wins.
Maybe I'm dancing on the head of a pin here and trying to make too fine a distinction, but in my mind, there is a difference between having opinions and preferences (which is normal and fine), and saying things aren't canon or aren't "real Trek" as a result (not normal or fine).
Those Roddenberry purists can certainly prefer the things that are made by him and never watch the other stuff, but they cannot claim the other stuff never happened or doesn't count. Allowing them to do so gives them way too much power over others' engagement with the franchise and my whole point is that the franchise is this big large expansive thing that where we can plug into the various parts that make us happy.
