”Afraid” of the new Picard series?
- Thread starter JesterFace
- Start date
It is very confusing. Produces very strange conversations, much to my entertainment.
I don't think it's a resistance to change so much as of wanting to make sure the core essence of what makes something works stay the same. Also if you do experiment you do it along side more traditional stuff. For example their is no reason why Trek can't have both a Picard and a Orville style show on at the same time. Thing is Picard doesn't seem all that different from Discovery in terms of tone and the only difference seems to be, one had better writers than the other and one has a compelling lead and the other does not. I wasn't a big fan of doing a Pike show but I feel like I have changed my mind on that a little because I feel to me that is a show that would provide a better contrast to the other stuff they are doing. Also I think we really need a Trek comedy at this point. The short trek Tribble episode is a perfect type of show to do that feels completely different from the more dour stuff Kurtzman has done so far. Also I am think we need a rated R version of trek but fun rated R and not grim rated R. More Deadpool than Clockwork Orange. This is why I was so wanting a Tarantino movie. He does rated R and is very graphic but his movies aren't just serious they have a sense of humor and sense of fun to them as well.
Jason
It's pretty much don't change anything. Make it look like how I remember it.
Orville doesn't look like TNG. It feels like TNG though. Same with Galaxy Quest. Tons of changes but still feels like Trek. I think comes down to that more than the look. It's about capturing a feeling. If your a older fan it's a feeling of nostigia and feeling young again. If your new fan it means in essence being able to enjoy THEIR version of TNG for the first time because Orville clearly has even more modern touches than TNG did, what with the modern day speech patterns and talking about issues that TNG would not tackle such as LGBTQ issues or one story is about social media that wasn't even a issue when TNG was on the air. Plus better special effects yet special effects that feel older as if these effects are what they would have used in the 90's if they had the tech back then to do them.
Jason
Those aren't Star Trek so they don't count.
I'm an older fan. Been watching since 1966. I like the call backs to the old shows, but I also like it when they update things. I want Trek to look like it's modern production not a period piece.
Again Orville isn't a Star Trek show, so what they do isn't changing Star Trek. It's not really relevant to the topic of change vs static.
Well it's close enough to Trek. Also I like the idea updating Trek as well but it still has to feel like Trek sometimes. Usually that means positive and uplifting and dealing with social commentary in away that feels more timeless than specially topical. Which in away is sort of like exploring history. Also often with tons of futurism and mind blowing concepts. You then along side this you do your more experimental stuff. Trek can in theory be open to all sorts of exploration but you do have to make sure some of it stays true to it's roots.
Jason
That's my experience too. Change, of any kind, is treated as an anathema. That's why calls for exploring more future style technologies amuse me; any change will be regarded as a canon violation in some way and rejected out of hand.
"Star Trek: a show about the future; a fanbase obsessed with the past."
This isn't horseshoes or hand grenades so close isn't good enough.
Trek has a lot of "feels". I've yet to see a Trek show or film with out the "feels". At it's core Trek is about people and ideals. Not futurism or mind blowing concepts. That's Trek's roots and goes back to the first pitch and writer's guide.
Orville is to Star Trek like Blazing Saddles is to The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
Other than they have jobs in space Orville has very little in common with TNG. I never saw a TNG bridge officer hump an alien statue nor did I see the Captain get into arguments in front of alien species about his ex's. Orville is nothing more than a Seth created humorous homage to Trek. Trek it is not.
Exactly. The tech has always taken a back seat to the human experience and adventure. The tech and the futurism was not supposed to be the focus of the universe, and was just a tool. That's why my "worries" (a term used loosely) about the tech and the computers is largely minimal. If the tech doesn't dramatically alter the story then it is background tapestry and doesn't require development.
I agree that people and ideals are most important but I think it being positive is important to even though it doesn't have to be Roddenberry vision positive. At least sometimes. Which to me is why I love the idea of them exploring different universes. Keep the Prime universe very uplifting but then go explore these other universes were things are very different. At the very least someone needs to explain why young people went back to talking like Gen Z all the way into the 24th century. While the idea of making things more relatable is good you can go so far that it feels far fetched. Orville does this as well but of course it gets a pass because it's new and unlike Picard we haven't already been exposed to the idea that people in the future have sort of evolved in this kind of Pillar way of talking to each other.
We forget one of the reasons for some of Trek's style choices was so it would not date itself. Not always worked but when you go back to TNG and DS9 those shows don't feel so 90's like for the most part. Nobody is asking someone to come by their crib and hangout or listening to Walkman like devices. That to me is something about Picard that I find weird. Not something that makes me hate the show. I loved the episode but it does have these touches that doesn't make it truly feel like a continuation of TNG at all but more of piece of fiction wanting to stand on it's own and not really wanting to be part of the bigger universe. Much like the thing it was inspired by in "Logan." It seems to be consistency doesn't really mean so much to the new people running Trek so much as trying to use the best ideas they like no matter what. If they wanted to do a new Trek show after this still set in the same time and all of sudden decide that New York is now the place were Starfleet Headquarters is or if the Enterprise -E is a Galaxy Class ship then I could see them just doing it, no matter what canon says.
Jason
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Looks and feels like 90s Berman Trek.........have you not seen all that beige leather?
If that were the case, then I'd be proud to be The Orville.
Well somethings naturally slip through the cracks but the people didn't feel like 90's people. The tech looked nothing like modern tech and even had things that wouldn't be things until later like home computers and I pad's. I mean it still looks like a futuristic setting even today when you look back at those shows. Especially with the clothes. Picard's earth kind of looks what I suspect earth must have looked like during "Enterprise" time but feels weird in 24th century time. I actually could see people really living in the future setting of Picard where as TNG it's more of a nice fantasy of , wouldn't it be cool and fun to live in this fantastic setting. I doubt anyone would ever want to live on the ship their are using just by looking at the sets from the trailers but who wouldn't want to go live on the Enterprise? Looks like it would be a fun place to live.
Jason
Is it the fanbase who is obsessed with the past, or the producers. Before Discovery overwhelmingly most popular fan demand was a post-Nemesis show (Picard of course finally is that.) Yet CBS decided to make a TOS era show... and then add bunch of supertech and change how everything looks. It is absolutely zero surprise that it caused some backlash.
Now, I actually wasn't one of those demanding post-Nemesis show, I don't feel Trek should be about tech and can work in any era. But the sort of show Discovery was, would absolutely have worked much better in the post-Nemesis setting. One of the central premises was ludicrous super drive FFS! As much as I didn't like ludicrous superdrives on Voyager, at least a Quantum Slipsteam testbed Discovery would have made perfect sense in the continuity. And of course the era would have given them great freedom to redefine visuals without invalidating anything already existing.
So yeah, if one want to do 'new stuff' then set it in the future of the setting. Or just say it is a reboot and try not have it both ways, that would work too.
I think it is a mixture of both. While the fan base was asking for post-NEM, there was a huge amount of evidence for interest in TOS era, specifically in fan productions and the success of the Abrams films indicated that was an era audiences were interested in.
Now, certainly I think the producers are obsessed too, but that comes from being risk-adverse. They are not willing to stray too far because that means risking money on an unsure thing. But, I think that it was a mixture of things, and the producers went with a more safe bet, to their mind.
Now, Discovery is a mixed bag, because it clearly didn't have that unified vision really needed from the word go. Fuller's design ideas was indeed to mix it up and some stayed, and some left. Personally, I'm glad the Klingons got redesigned, but I wouldn't have done the uniforms anywhere close to what we got.
I would love a full reboot of Trek.
Not only that....but almost everything. The lighting, camera work, opening credits, music, story pacing, establishing shots...it's all very much like TNG / VOY.
And that's not a criticism or a critique. It's just how I see it. It's virtually a beat-for-beat copy / homage...with the exception of some of the humor they chose to employ and the premise of "this is just an average ship in the fleet....not the flagship with the best crew."
^^^
I think it was more like: "Let's get this in the can...before we loose our Lead actor!" (Hey, he IS turning 80 this year.)
I think it's both with also a "We need this for CBS All Access because Discovery hasn't been the hit we were expecting.)
Jason
