I am watching DS9 for the first time (some observations)

[CRM-114]

A little over a year ago, I started this thread in the DSC forum:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/should-i-give-discovery-another-chance.292885/

I asked if I should consider giving DSC another chance, having quit six episodes into Season One. Despite a litany of opinions on either side of the matter, I ultimately never revisited DSC. Whatever technical achievements the show has going for it, the storytelling felt very superficial. I wasn't invested in the characters or their stories the way I ideally should be.

So, what does that have to do with DS9?

Until last night (May 19th, as I write this), I had never seen an entire episode of DS9 beyond "Emissary". I distinctly remember watching it with my dad on the old TV in my parents' bedroom when it first aired in January 1993. I didn't remember anything about the plot other the opening scene at Wolf 359. I seem to recall liking it, but Dad and I didn't hang with the show. I remember years later catching part of Take Me Out to the Holosuite, while doing some chores. Until now, that was the extent of my DS9 viewing experience.

After being disappointed with DSC, I realized I still had an entirely new series to watch from the beginning. Admittedly, I wasn't sure about how much I would enjoy DS9, as my disappointment with DSC made me wonder if there was anything left in Star Trek worth finding.

Being only two episodes in, I can say that DS9 has managed to grab me in a way DSC had been at most partially successful after six episodes. The storytelling and the characterizations feel sharper; DS9 uses its' storytelling to make its' points, whereas DSC often felt like storytelling was sacrificed in order for the point to be made.

I plan to keep this thread ongoing, if only perhaps to record my own experience with a new (old) series that made me think Star Trek still had something to offer when DSC made me question that.

 

[BillJ]

Deep Space Nine is my least favorite legacy series (I like starships, I like planet of the week stories, though my youngest son is named 'Benjamin'), yet it blows Discovery out-of-the-water. For one real reason: they seemed to have an idea what the show was supposed to be when they created it.

Discovery could be a great show, if it ever figures out what it really wants to be.

 

[CRM-114]

I just finished watching "Q-Less". I've never been a fan of the Q episodes, but I didn't hate this one. That said, I understand why it was a one-and-done story. Q doesn't really fit the DS9 storytelling mold. He's usually at the center of the action, whereas in this episode, he's mostly on the sidelines.

EDIT: Some notes on the previous six episodes:

1. I had forgotten how "Emissary" is really just set-up for what's to come, since Sisko being Emissary hasn't really come into play yet. Opaka refers to Sisko possibly being the one to find the Celestial Temple, but otherwise it is at this point merely the portal to the Gamma Quadrant.

2. When Bashir first meets Garak, it's so awkward that it feels almost like a meet-cute. When Andrew Robinson says he played Garak as gay, he definitely means it. Knowing that Bashir will later be drawn into Section 31, there's something about him that seems to attract people that are not entirely trustworthy.

 

[tomswift2002]

Yeah, DS9 and Discovery are so far apart in terms of story telling. For me, DS9 has that thing that makes it Star Trek, whereas Discovery comes across as generic sci-fi. You could slap another moniker on Discovery (I.e. “Flash Gordon”) and it wouldn’t matter, it’s still generic. Try slapping “Babylon 5” on DS9, and aside from both being set on space stations, neither can work as the other, they both have their own distinct qualities.

 

[StarMan]

All I can say is: If you're impressed with season 1 so far -- keep going! It's not close to hitting it's stride. I'm envious.

 

[guyute03]

Wait until you get to season 2/3. Show really finds itself.
Enjoy!

 

[Tuvix5675]

I would say there's almost two DS9 series, the break occurs somewhere in season 4. The major group relationships from season1-3 is Federation-Bajoran-Cardassian. This changes or begins changing in season 4 to Federation-Klingon-Dominion. Seasons 1-3 deal with the aftermath of occupation, seasons 4-7 deal with the threat of war, the prelude to war, then war itself.

 

[DonIago]

For me that 'break' occurs at the end of S2, when the series opens a Pandora's Box akin to TNG's "Q Who?".

 

[Finn]

I just finished watching "Q-Less". I've never been a fan of the Q episodes, but I didn't hate this one. That said, I understand why it was a one-and-done story. Q doesn't really fit the DS9 storytelling mold. He's usually at the center of the action, whereas in this episode, he's mostly on the sidelines.

Q is often at the sidelines. That how he often does his mischief. He was pretty much sitting back in Q-Who (He pretty much had a talk with Picard, snapped his fingers and let them interact with Borg, then snapped them back), Deja-Q (he served very little purpose), Q2 (Much of the attention was on Junior. Aside from pretending to be that alien captain, he didn't do much) and arguably Tapestry as he didn't really do anything other than transporting Picard through time/realities.


I don't think Q-Less was much of an anomaly when it comes to Q's behavior.

 

[tomswift2002]

Without “Q-Less” we would’ve never gotten one of Q’s best lines.

Q:“You hit me! Picard would never hit me!”
Sisko: “I’m not Picard!”

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Without “Q-Less” we would’ve never gotten one of Q’s best lines.

Q:“You hit me! Picard would never hit me!”
Sisko: “I’m not Picard!”

Hmm … the faster we got to Aamin Marritza, the better.

 

[CRM-114]

All I can say is: If you're impressed with season 1 so far -- keep going! It's not close to hitting it's stride. I'm envious.

I'll say this, you can tell they're still figuring out what the show should be. "Move Along Home" is not a well-regarded episode by reputation, but it almost feels like it could be a TOS episode, with the Twilight Zone-esque story.

 

[CRM-114]

Q is often at the sidelines. That how he often does his mischief. He was pretty much sitting back in Q-Who (He pretty much had a talk with Picard, snapped his fingers and let them interact with Borg, then snapped them back), Deja-Q (he served very little purpose), Q2 (Much of the attention was on Junior. Aside from pretending to be that alien captain, he didn't do much) and arguably Tapestry as he didn't really do anything other than transporting Picard through time/realities.


I don't think Q-Less was much of an anomaly when it comes to Q's behavior.

The VOY Q episodes are the ones I'm most familiar with, and he does tend to be more front and center there. I can see why they didn't revisit him on DS9, though. He's mostly there for Vash, and once she's gone, there's no real reason for him to hang around.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The VOY Q episodes are the ones I'm most familiar with, and he does tend to be more front and center there. I can see why they didn't revisit him on DS9, though. He's mostly there for Vash, and once she's gone, there's no real reason for him to hang around.

Once your antagonists are clearly intent on taking over, there is no more room for tricksters like Q. For the most part, Kirk and Picard could not defeat the various supernatural beings they encountered without them succumbing to their arrogance or having a similarly powerful being step in. The Dominion, the Founders in particular, were not comparatively more powerful than the Q. However, they could not be reasoned out their intention to control to AQ powers. And yet, their ability to infiltrate governments along with their intentions made them just as threatening as the Q.

 

[Tuvix5675]

Q was an adversary that started out strong and threatening and became progressively weaker and annoying. By the time he ended up on DS9, the character was no longer interesting. By the time he ended up on VOY he was annoying. The only good Q episodes were on TNG, I think his relationship with Picard was a big part of that.

 

[DonIago]

"Death Wish" begs to differ.

 

[Finn]

Actually I'd argue Death Wish ruined the Q continuum.

 

[BillJ]

I love “Death Wish”, wish Voyager had stopped their Q episodes at that point.

 

[Tuvix5675]

What did Q do in Death Wish that was threatening?

Q was early on in TNG a good foil for the Federation, a counterpoint to the Federation's high ideals about themselves and their mission to explore, he showed Picard's crew that perhaps they weren't as moral and ethical a species as they thought they were in "Encounter at Farpoint", or perhaps not as ready as they thought to face the dangers that lay out in space in "Q Who". Later, Q became like a friend of Picard and the Enterprise crew, that's when the character lost his edge for me. Then he just kept popping up in other series like DS9 and VOY because he was a fan favorite and the writer's were spent on ideas.

 

[DonIago]

Hm? You said the only good Q episodes were on TNG. I disagree.