Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

It‘s the same kind of paradox as Tasha going back to the past with the Ent-C and thereby erasing her own past.

It‘s the concept of a time remnant to borrow from Flash terminology.

There is precedent in Trek for this.

 

Well true. Wasn't Tasha related to Sela?

 

Which would be fine except for the individuals in the suits who remember all the changes.

It makes me wonder what else Dr Burnham got up to while using the suit.

I dont think its entirely over, I can tell from your responses that you really want it to be over and done with but it doesnt feel like it to me.

These kinds of plotlines are normally sorted out and neatly tied up in a bow at the end but this one was not, that could be because of the change in story direction mid season due to the changes in the writers room or because they intend to properly resolve it as a apart of season 3.

Unfortunately we are going to have to wait quite a while to find out.

 

Mother and daughter.

Another case of predestination.

 

Its actually a lot more complex.

There are three actors (Dr Burnham/Burnham/AI) who are jumping backward and forward in time.

Moving forward in time is the safer option but when you also add that the AI then sent something back in time as well it starts to get really messy but its manageable, similar to a predestination paradox like we saw with Tasha and her daughter Sela.

The action that really makes it a gigantic problem is Burnhams/Pikes intent to undo the AI actions in the future by destroying it in the present, which means any action it took in the future will no longer have happened, which includes the sending back of the probe by the AI to the past which is what sets all of this off in the first place.

Hence the possibility of a reset as has been discussed in the thread, the writers can just ignore it but after the effort they put into it to align it with ToS I find it rather unlikely, I think there is more for us to see in regards to it, especially the actions of Burnham and the Discovery in the future and maybe what remains of Leland/AI that is currently in the spore chamber.

The only ones who will be aware of the change will be those who wear the time suit or have any interaction/proximity with the time crystal which could end up including the Discovery itself and the Enterprise, if the AI is truly defeated they can go and get themselves another time crystal if need be.

I do think that the present is safe from the AI, but the future is still up for grabs which is what we will see in Season 3, we dont have all the facts yet as we havent seen what Burnham and the Discovery will do in the future yet, they could make it worse before they make it better.

There is also the matter of Georgiou who will need to return to the present if she is to be a part of the upcoming S31 show.

This is the problem when you take time travel out of Pandoras box, you cant put it back again and it complicates everything, all of this is based on it being in just the single timeline, if the writers were to start adding the MU and alternative timelines it would very quickly become unworkable.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it could have been the cause of the bust up in the writers room, it really does cause all sorts of problems if it isnt thought out very carefully, you can do pretty much anything using time travel but it also has to make sense at the end.

Some on this forum just want the storyline to be over and done with and I can certainly understand why however I dont think it is quite as over as we are being led to believe but only time will tell.

 

I don't think the main story has changed the direction in any way after the EPs changed. Details may have changed but the general direction has remained the same. This is proven by the following post:

As you can see from April 2018 the history of the red angel included Burnham's mother as well as Burnham herself. As we already know from previous interviews, it also included a jump in time from the very beginning.

 

What's funny is that each story in the franchise treats time travel in its own way, with total disregard for all the others. So we have as many time travel "theories" as we have stories about it. In fact, sometimes they manage to be inconsistent WITHIN a single story. Like in DS9's "Time's Orphan" where Molly meets her younger self and disappear into thin air only later when younger Molly went through the vortex, but what if she had stayed instead? The coexistence of the two Mollies would have been as contradictory!! So she should have disappeared the INSTANT she met herself and not ten minutes later!

 

Well, there are many different theories of how time travel works, so it goes to reason that there might be many different ways and effects of time travel depending on what method is used.

 

And there are the conflicting theories surrounding FC. One being that Riker and Geordi were ALWAYS in the Phoenix cockpit with Zefram Cochrane but Cochrane chose not to record their presence and the intervention of the Borg and the Enterprise-E crew in the events of First Contact were a predestination paradox or temporal loop, a theory further strengthened by the revived Borg drones in the Arctic in ENT sending the message in the direction of the Delta Quadrant informing the Collective about the existence of Earth.

The other being that FC created an alternate timeline and that Picard and his crew were never present in the original history of Zefram Cochrane breaking the warp barrier and making First Contact with the Vulcans and the attempted intervention by the Borg led to a changed history that had ripple effects down through time including the development and launch of Enterprise NX-01.

 

It's only a paradox if it's the same timeline, creating a second timeline resolves the paradox.

 

IF there even is a second timeline. FC implies the original timeline was repaired and that Picard and his crew may have been there all along.

 

True, but that's just stupid given that a bunch of people has been killed on Earth during the Borg bombardments. Some of these people must have had children, even more grandchildren, and more great-grandchildren. After a couple of centuries that would mean thousands of people who were never born because of the Borg attacks and you can't possibly believe that the timeline would remain intact after such a drastic change. On the other hand it could be acceptable (though unlikely) to think that an alternate timeline had been created where the big events and most people's destinies would remain the same. I don't believe that thought. I think that any change done to the past would have enormous consequences in the future.

 

Again, no time travel story withstands scrutiny. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

I'd absolutely love it if Daniels just showed up at one point in any time travel story, took a single look around then merely shrugged and said "eh, whatever, close enough" before disappearing.

 

Daniels took Archer to the future to show him a battle against the sphere builders. But the spheres were completely destroyed and space returned to normal and that means that that battle NEVER happened! ENT is filled with nonsense like that!

 

It's much too soon for the time of DUNE which is like six thousand years in the future... I think.

 

The spores must flow.

... imagine though if they arrived in a place where everyone is using spores as very high-end, really expensive drugs and no one realizes their FTL capabilities.

 

Urban legend, methinks.