Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
You obviously didn't watch "Blunt Talk"...Which Mr. Stewart dearly wanted to succeed.i don't think there's enough money on the planet to get stewart on board for sth like that
i don't even know it - is it picard related, though?
No. It was funny. Intentionally, that is.
OK not sure if this has been shared here yet but the Super Anemic for the final episode.
http://superanemic.com/2019/04/19/discovery-s02-e14-such-sweet-sorrow-part-2/#comment-751
http://superanemic.com/2019/04/19/discovery-s02-e14-such-sweet-sorrow-part-2/#comment-751
looks like it never made it to germany
I have to admit, that‘s somewhat funny coming from a guy who so consistently ignores any rule of capitalisation in his writing.
....
--Control: "Women stop talking!"
.....
And that means that in addition to being a multi-genocidal maniac, Control was also a misogynistic pig!!!
i don't think there's enough money on the planet to get stewart on board for sth like that
Never seen him on American Dad?
--Control: "Women stop talking!"
What about Georgiou and Nhan
"Should we torture him and make him scream?"
"yum yum"
I mean that was just so random and funny I was laughing too long and had to rewind the bit after to follow the story.
Just rewatched the finally episodes back to back in their entirety, because I was curious if it would change my mind about them. I'm still baffled by the illogic of “We can't destroy the ship (so we're not even gonna try)”, “We must bring the ship to the future (even with Control onboard or disabled)” and “Let's never speak of Discovery ever again (even though there's no reason for it and it makes no sense that it would be even possible)”, but I think I was better able to appreciate some of the nicer moments of the finale. Here are a couple of things I hadn't noticed before:
- I'm not sure I get Burnham's calculations for where (or better: when) to go with the Discovery. Her mother disappeared 20 years ago and is now trapped 950 years into the future. So she sets the destination to 930 years into the future. She probably learnt this from her mother's logs, but from the dialog alone it seems like she thinks her mother's disappearance 20 years ago must mean she has spent 20 years in the future also. But of course that doesn't have to be the case. She could have been there anything from 1 year to 10 years or even 30 years.
- Rewatching the scene where Cornwell tells Pike that his story doesn't end there, I really did get the strong impression that she knows of his Time Crystal vision. It's not outright said, but heavily implied. He seems to wonder whether he could really die there and she thinks that his vision wasn't of an inevitable future and that he needs to leave in order to save people down the road. It's almost like there exists a deleted scene where he tells her about his vision.
- Why were Georgiou and Nhan trying so desperately to enter the ready room/science lab to confront Control/Leland, when the first thing that Georgiou did when they finally managed to enter was to tell Control that it wouldn't be able to find the sphere data there, since she had used her Section 31 thingy to transfer it somewhere else? Wouldn't have been wiser to just trap him there for a while?
- The music in those episodes is just outstanding! Jeff Russo did an awesome job incorporating all those epic and heart-wrenching and nostalgic moments in his scores.
- The visuals for Burnham's time travel through the wormhole were pretty cool. I loved the abstract, unconventional nature of the way each point in time would dissolve into the next. Also, the TMP-esque effect when they were entering the wormhole with the Discovery, was a nice nod.
- I hadn't seen this mentioned anywhere else yet, but Spock is quoting Neil deGrasse Tyson in his end monolog: “The universe is under no obligation to make sense to me.” Nice!
- I know, I'm listing a lot of superficial stuff, but I loved how they reimagined the Enterprise bridge. I'm still not sure where Georgiou is seeing orange, though.
- I have to say that one of my favorite parts about the finale was the character of Po. I didn't really like the Short Trek she featured in, but here she's a welcome contrast to the other characters. Plus I like her look and the quirky performance of Yadira Guevara-Prip. I know she stayed in the 23rd century, but hopefully they'll find a way to bring her back to the show somehow.
- It's nice that they brought some sort of closure at last to the Stamets and Culber relationship. Loved the moment when Hugh suddenly appeared by his bed in sickbay.
Where did you find Picard show production notes? I'd be surprised if all those things didn't happen.
G
Gonzo
Guest
Yeah the pacing was a bit silly really but they seems to be most concerned about tying up all the loose ends ready for season 3, except that doesn't work either as they forgot about the probe.Just rewatched the finally episodes back to back in their entirety, because I was curious if it would change my mind about them. I'm still baffled by the illogic of “We can't destroy the ship (so we're not even gonna try)”, “We must bring the ship to the future (even with Control onboard or disabled)” and “Let's never speak of Discovery ever again (even though there's no reason for it and it makes no sense that it would be even possible)”, but I think I was better able to appreciate some of the nicer moments of the finale. Here are a couple of things I hadn't noticed before:
Also, I thought I'd list all the things I really liked about “Such Sweet Sorrow” for once. I don't want to be all negative about it all of the time.
- I'm not sure I get Burnham's calculations for where (or better: when) to go with the Discovery. Her mother disappeared 20 years ago and is now trapped 950 years into the future. So she sets the destination to 930 years into the future. She probably learnt this from her mother's logs, but from the dialog alone it seems like she thinks her mother's disappearance 20 years ago must mean she has spent 20 years in the future also. But of course that doesn't have to be the case. She could have been there anything from 1 year to 10 years or even 30 years.
- Rewatching the scene where Cornwell tells Pike that his story doesn't end there, I really did get the strong impression that she knows of his Time Crystal vision. It's not outright said, but heavily implied. He seems to wonder whether he could really die there and she thinks that his vision wasn't of an inevitable future and that he needs to leave in order to save people down the road. It's almost like there exists a deleted scene where he tells her about his vision.
- Why were Georgiou and Nhan trying so desperately to enter the ready room/science lab to confront Control/Leland, when the first thing that Georgiou did when they finally managed to enter was to tell Control that it wouldn't be able to find the sphere data there, since she had used her Section 31 thingy to transfer it somewhere else? Wouldn't have been wiser to just trap him there for a while?
- The music in those episodes is just outstanding! Jeff Russo did an awesome job incorporating all those epic and heart-wrenching and nostalgic moments in his scores.
- The visuals for Burnham's time travel through the wormhole were pretty cool. I loved the abstract, unconventional nature of the way each point in time would dissolve into the next. Also, the TMP-esque effect when they were entering the wormhole with the Discovery, was a nice nod.
- I hadn't seen this mentioned anywhere else yet, but Spock is quoting Neil deGrasse Tyson in his end monolog: “The universe is under no obligation to make sense to me.” Nice!
- I know, I'm listing a lot of superficial stuff, but I loved how they reimagined the Enterprise bridge. I'm still not sure where Georgiou is seeing orange, though.
- I have to say that one of my favorite parts about the finale was the character of Po. I didn't really like the Short Trek she featured in, but here she's a welcome contrast to the other characters. Plus I like her look and the quirky performance of Yadira Guevara-Prip. I know she stayed in the 23rd century, but hopefully they'll find a way to bring her back to the show somehow.
- It's nice that they brought some sort of closure at last to the Stamets and Culber relationship. Loved the moment when Hugh suddenly appeared by his bed in sickbay.
Some of the unresolved issues could be dealt with in the short treks though.
They really should have kept all the talky stuff for the first part of the finale, leaving all the main action for the second part so they wouldn't just be standing around having a chat in the middle of the battle.
A lot of this is down to the changes in the writing room, I would be very interested to see what the original idea and script was for the show before we had all the upheaval in the first and second seasons.
At this point In think the whole idea of the show has been redone multiple times and it shows, with that being said they did the best they could under the circumstances.
Good grief guys! A poster stated their opinion and clarified it as such. IDIC and all that.
Yes, as would I. I know, some think there wasn't really a change of plan with the arc for season two and that it was all planned like that from the beginning, but that's not how it feels to me. Would really love to know what the original idea behind the signals was going to be and how the initial theme hinted at in the first episodes would have played. And I'm still curious why the technology on Kaminar seems to have been deliberately designed to resemble the Preservers' from TOS. Add to that the transplanted group of Earth people from “New Eden” resembling the transplanted group of Earth people from “The Paradise Syndrome”. Was that all just a coincidence?
I still don't understand why the probe vexes you so much. But part of the reason why my enjoyment of the season fell off a cliff after Project Daedalus is it seems like the entire back half of the season was engineered solely to tee up the third season. It makes me wonder if Kurtzman thought that Berg/Harberts plan for the season arc was such unmitigated garbage/so unworkable, that he was more focused on clearing the board for the next season than telling a story which was compelling in any way beyond some character moments.
G
Gonzo
Guest
I think it's reasonable to conclude based on what we have seen that the direction of the show was changed more than once, especially in the cases where footage had already been shot and had to be used somehow.
At times some of the scenes seem like they have been cut short and other feel like they have been stretched out.
It's not all the time or in every episode and it seems to affect the overall plot arc episodes rather than the stand alone.
That sort of thing should be smoothed out in the writers room before any footage is taken and it supports the reports of issues in the writers room and the change of direction.
Can't speak for @Gonzo here, but the altered probe from the future plothole is a pretty good indicator for the writers not really thinking the Control/Red Angel storyline through. It doesn't bother me more or less than all the other signs of the arc not really adding up.
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