Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x14 - "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2"

[Mechanoid1]

The new Twilight Zone is pretty good though.

Damn it! I'm in the mirrored universe again. Darn that spore drve.

 

[Mechanoid1]

They're already doing it.

So they say....wheres the beef? Theres alot of pie on the sky. Yet after tonight we wont have anything until when?

 

[Gonzo]

If a reset does happen, considering it would basically erase Burnhams timeline and interactions, Prime Georgiou may still be alive

Lorca as well but thats just one possibility, they may just can kick it into next season.

 

[ITDUDE]

Lorca as well but thats just one possibility, they may just can kick it into next season.

Basically Burnham has messed up so many lives with her existence in both Prime and MU.
Think about it. No Klingon War, Lorcas (both PU and MU would be alive), same for Georgiou (MU version would be happily in charge of MU). Jett Reno's wife would be alive. Detmer not injured, S31 would not be building Control, poor Lealand would be still human, USS Gagarin intact, U.S.S. Shenzhou intact countless lives not lost.
At some point Burnham will realize the universe is better place without her having ever existed, just like Ashton Kutcher in Butterfly Effect. And you bet we're going to be all over the writers for stealing this plot point from that movie

 

[Gonzo]

There might be a time reset, but (IMO) it will not be used to explain why Spock never mentions Burnham in TOS or explain why there is no spore drive in TOS...

That is to say, if there is a reset, I think it will only go back a short time to reset something like the destruction of the Enterprise in this episode (that's just an example),Something like TNG: Cause and Effect or TNG: Time Squared. Or maybe a reset to undo the deaths we saw in Burnham's vision.

I don't think the reset will go back so far as to make Burnham's parents not die/make Burnham not become Spock's foster sister. Nor will a reset go back so far that there is no spore drive or no Klingon War starting at the battle of the Binary Stars.

I think that the reset if it happens will not be enough and Burnham will have to go further using the suit, in the end she may realise that it is herself and her actions since her parents death that need to be undone, she is after all a nexus of the time loop along with Control.

So a version of Burnham would exist that never lost her parents or met Spock, the Burnham we know would remain protected by the suit and would then stay in the future so the past (Discovery present) is preserved.

Lots of possibilities when you mess with time.

 

[Alan Roi]

Basically Burnham has messed up so many lives with her existence in both Prime and MU.
Think about it. No Klingon War, Lorcas (both PU and MU would be alive), same for Georgiou (MU version would be happily in charge of MU). Jett Reno's wife would be alive. Detmer not injured, S31 would not be building Control, poor Lealand would be still human, USS Gagarin intact, U.S.S. Shenzhou intact countless lives not lost.
At some point Burnham will realize the universe is better place without her having ever existed, just like Ashton Kutcher in Butterfly Effect. And you bet we're going to be all over the writers from stealing this plot point from that movie

Except for the fact she didn't start the Klingon war, the Klingon's did, that's all great.

 

[Gonzo]

Basically Burnham has messed up so many lives with her existence in both Prime and MU.
Think about it. No Klingon War, Lorcas (both PU and MU would be alive), same for Georgiou (MU version would be happily in charge of MU). Jett Reno's wife would be alive. Detmer not injured, S31 would not be building Control, poor Lealand would be still human, USS Gagarin intact, U.S.S. Shenzhou intact countless lives not lost.
At some point Burnham will realize the universe is better place without her having ever existed, just like Ashton Kutcher in Butterfly Effect. And you bet we're going to be all over the writers from stealing this plot point from that movie

Yeah, see the post I made in reply to @Jackson_Roykirk a mere moment after you posted this.

Many possibilities.

 

[ITDUDE]

All great, except for the fact she didn't start the Klingon war, the Klingon's did..

Ah but she killed the first torch bearer. Events would have unfolded completely differently without her being there. More than likely the war could have been avoided.

 

[element7ero]

love(d) the new additions (Pike, Spock, the sadly very rarely seen Jet Reno and Number One) as well as the Bridge crew getting fleshed out a little bit so far and hope there is more in the finale (and beyond in whatever way/form)

I'm intrigued on what happens, but I have low hopes that they can pull it off in a way that doesn't feel over dramatic, over rushed/stuffed and has a decent story.

 

[Alan Roi]

Ah but she killed the first torch bearer. Events would have unfolded completely differently without her being there. More than likely they war could have been avoided.

And as that turned out, killing him meant no difference going forwards.

Just as likely if not more so, the war happens, as the Captain's are all like Georigiou and continue to insult the Klingon's by claiming "we come in peace", but with no Spore drive, the Federation is toast, end of story. But hey, like you and me, everyone's got an opinion.

 

[ITDUDE]

Just as likely if not more so, the war happens, but with no Spore drive, the Federation is toast, end of story. But hey, like you and me, everyone's got an opinion.

What did Spore drive actually do in the war? Yeah Lorca shot up a few ships, big deal. Couldn't save Gagarin anyhow.

 

[Alan Roi]

What did Spore drive actually do in the war? Yeah Lorca shot up a few ships, big deal. Couldn't save Gagarin anyhow.

Maybe watch Season 1 to find out?

 

[eschaton]

Maybe watch Season 1 to find out?

The supposed great victories of Discovery in the war happened off camera and were only briefly mentioned

 

[Gonzo]

Ah but she killed the first torch bearer. Events would have unfolded completely differently without her being there. More than likely the war could have been avoided.

Burnham will have the opportunity to alter the entire situation, it may not have been T'Kuvmas intention to trigger a war with the Federation at that time, he wanted to bring the Klingons back together, the error was Starfleets in bringing their own fleet to the party with that idiot of an Admiral, what would have happened if Burnham had hit Georgiou a bit harder I wonder.

Burnham could identify a way to short circuit the whole situation, by destroying the Sarcophagus ship (an option but unlikely) or having a quiet word with T'Kuvma just like she can do with Leland and her mother to make sure the suit is never created and her parents never disappear/die.

That would not undo Burnham herself immediately though as she is wearing the suit which protects her from the changes and effectively removing her tether to events, she can then stay in the future.

 

[Alan Roi]

My prediction:

The squidified probe being sent back from the future and taking over Airiam ends up being revealed as as the timeline's McCoy/Edith Keeler moment and the consequences of its changing the past are what ultimately erases the future where Control took over the galaxy, just like McCoy's saving Keeler changed the future in a similar manner.

 

[Alan Roi]

Burnham will have the opportunity to alter the entire situation, it may not have been T'Kuvmas intention to trigger a war with the Federation at that time, he wanted to bring the Klingons back together, the error was Starfleets in bringing their own fleet to the party, what would have happened if Burnham had hit Georgiou a bit harder I wonder.

Burnham could identify a way to short circuit the whole situation, by destroying the Sarcophagus ship (an option but unlikely) or having a quiet word with T'Kuvma just like she can do with Leland and her mother to make sure the suit is never created and her parents never disappear/die.

That would not undo Burnham herself immediately though as she is wearing the suit which protects her from the changes and effectively removing her tether to events, she can then stay in the future.

Except it was T'Kuvma's intention to trigger a war with the Federation to bring the Klingons back together.

 

[Gonzo]

Except it was T'Kuvma's intention to trigger a war with the Federation to bring the Klingons back together.

Yes but it didnt happen quite in the way he expected although Starfleet were just as stupid as usual, he never anticipated that Burnham and Georgiou would turn up early or kill him as a result.

Ultimately Burnham was right which means its a potential point of change if Burnham wants it to be.

 

[Alan Roi]

Yes but it didnt happen quite in the way he expected although Starfleet were just as stupid as usual, he never anticipated that Burnham and Georgiou would turn up early or kill him as a result.

Ultimately Burnham was right which means its a potential point of change if Burnham wants it to be.

Doesn't fix the future however in any way I can think of, which is the problem, as we've seen, and again, perhaps makes things worse. Dr. Burnham try everything she can think of to do so and nothing worked. Allowing Control, however, to come back into the past may be what changes things, as in City on the Edge of Forever.

 

[tomalak301]

Does anyone know how long this episode is going to be. I wouldn't mind a 90 minute finale.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I'm not expecting a timeline reset or the Borg, but I'm definitely afraid of them! But at least the forum meltdown will be entertaining if that happens.