By slavishly trying to duplicate the same performance Reeves gave, IMO.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x10 - "The Red Angel"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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By slavishly trying to duplicate the same performance Reeves gave, IMO.
I do think it's fair to say that there have been elements of the arc that have been disappointing. I was personally greatly looking forward to the RA being some enigmatic and wonderful mystery, that perhaps may never have fully been solved. And, to the "science vs. faith" theme, this would leave the crew questioning their beliefs.
I knew that was blown to hell weeks ago when they figured out it was a person in a suit. It was a letdown for me. It's also been a bit of a letdown that the story has flexed more toward an "evil AI" slant. To me, that's just a horribly overused trope in science fiction. I also cringe every time someone says the phrase "extinguish all sentient life."
All that said, I'm still loving the ride. I find the individual episodes to be engaging, the performances are amazing, the plots are generally fun. I mean, at least it's not fucking boring or stale.
I can be disappointed that my personal wants or desires are not being met and still be open minded enough to enjoy everything that is going on. I wanted the RA thing to be a wonderous mystery. Ok, it's Burnhams mom instead. That's not what I wanted, but it is pretty interesting, and a helluva lot better than fucking Iconians or Prime Lorca or whatever the hell else people thought was the deal.
Overall, I've enjoyed this as much as any Trek experience of the past twenty five years. DSC has moved into my second place slot, behind only TOS now. It is frustrating at times because it still feels sloppy and like too many opportunities are missed...but even as such it's been wildly entertaining. You look at an episode like If Memory Serves and you see what the show could be. It has that capability. It feels like we're really close...like on the verge of something special. But it's not....quite....there....yet
I knew that was blown to hell weeks ago when they figured out it was a person in a suit. It was a letdown for me. It's also been a bit of a letdown that the story has flexed more toward an "evil AI" slant. To me, that's just a horribly overused trope in science fiction. I also cringe every time someone says the phrase "extinguish all sentient life."
All that said, I'm still loving the ride. I find the individual episodes to be engaging, the performances are amazing, the plots are generally fun. I mean, at least it's not fucking boring or stale.
I can be disappointed that my personal wants or desires are not being met and still be open minded enough to enjoy everything that is going on. I wanted the RA thing to be a wonderous mystery. Ok, it's Burnhams mom instead. That's not what I wanted, but it is pretty interesting, and a helluva lot better than fucking Iconians or Prime Lorca or whatever the hell else people thought was the deal.
Overall, I've enjoyed this as much as any Trek experience of the past twenty five years. DSC has moved into my second place slot, behind only TOS now. It is frustrating at times because it still feels sloppy and like too many opportunities are missed...but even as such it's been wildly entertaining. You look at an episode like If Memory Serves and you see what the show could be. It has that capability. It feels like we're really close...like on the verge of something special. But it's not....quite....there....yet
One of the biggest issues in determining "continuity" is it is so difficult to get anyone involved in the trek projects to definitively state what they are following.
It isn't the reason, but if you said this was due to First Contact and discovered tech and knowledge kept classified of the Borg it would explain some of the differences from TOS.
It isn't the reason, but if you said this was due to First Contact and discovered tech and knowledge kept classified of the Borg it would explain some of the differences from TOS.
I'm thinking that perhaps when this season is over and one can go back and binge it in its entirety in one sitting, many of the complaints being expressed will have somewhat logical answers, that watching in a weekly format leaves lengths of time to speculate incorrectly about.
Of course, if one finds the story generally lacking anyway, then nothing is going to cure that.
Of course, if one finds the story generally lacking anyway, then nothing is going to cure that.
Precisely so. Regardless of personal expectations, it is engaging and enjoyable.
They should have stuck with "science vs faith" mystery longer, but that seems to have been jettisoned when Harberts and Berg were fired.
That's how I saw it too. Interesting that many people don't like that scene. I loved it, especially the Papi part. But then again I love every scene Michelle Yeoh is in.
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Pardon me if this has already been mentioned but, Spock...that’s suit...good god BABY GOT BACK! 10 out of 10 for me!
But seriously, did Burnham and Tyler have to kiss? I’d much rather there be just a crap load of tension on that ship for rest of the entire series. Yeah yeah, she was about to die, whatever...
I am, however, so thoroughly relieved that the red angel was NOT Burham. The initial reveal sent shock waves of crushing disappointment through me from head to toe. Hmm...I suspect this had an influence on my approval of the final reveal though.
But seriously, did Burnham and Tyler have to kiss? I’d much rather there be just a crap load of tension on that ship for rest of the entire series. Yeah yeah, she was about to die, whatever...
I am, however, so thoroughly relieved that the red angel was NOT Burham. The initial reveal sent shock waves of crushing disappointment through me from head to toe. Hmm...I suspect this had an influence on my approval of the final reveal though.
Any sort of sex related talk on Trek seems really bother some people. Sort of they're hearing their parents talking dirty to each other or something similar.
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It was jettisoned after ep 2 I think... It was a great starting point, and yes, it could have been spread out longer.. but sooner or later, this is ST not Nu-BSG, so the crew would have discovered
the science behind the Red Angel.. it just happened a lot sooner than some had hoped..
Kirk should have known who his father was though from his service record.
This. Empathy was the primary factor in the Airiam background story and funeral. Some viewers felt it more than others.
To quote a a Starfleet Captain from the Mirror Universe, 'I still don't care'
Personally, I can't invest with how the characters are feeling, because I didn't know any of them had a relationship with Airiam, until they started telling me that they did. To me that is manipulative and contrived storytelling I hated when TNG and Voyager did stuff like this and I don't like that Discovery does it.
This. Empathy was the primary factor in the Airiam background story and funeral. Some viewers felt it more than others.
And Trekkies felt sadness over the death of a Starfleet officer that not only appeared in just one episode but was never even seen on-screen. Lisa Cusack from "The Sound of Her Voice(DS9)." To this day her temporally-out-of-phase audio communication with Sisko and his officers is an example of how to make the fans feel for a character they barely or don't even know.
Maybe Sarek and Spock decided to omit that from his service record? One, because Sarek didn't like Spock being in Starfleet to begin with and two, because Spock didn't want his familial connection to one of the most prominent diplomats in the Federation to hinder his career and become a weight around his neck when he was already going to have enough trouble assimilating into the human-dominated Starfleet and keeping his own emotions in check.
Me, too! I kept thinking that it just was way too obvious.
Future Captain Tilly is the reason the Romulans disappeared for 100 years, she would not stop talking!
The Red Angel
The tenth episode of season 2. Again, there are many plot lines in this episode. Opening with a memorial of Airiam was a very good choice. A very moving scene. The Kelpian song Saru sings was very appropriate. But the real revelations are what come later. That Airiam had a scan of the Red Angel that matched Burnham (like what), but would turn out to be a red herring. See below! Of course, Section 31 would be involved, along with Leland and the former Empress, given what happened to their headquarters.
Of course we don't see Discovery destroy the headquarters. Would it have been a good idea to show that? Most likely, but see above regarding the starting scene. However, one theme that is important in the episode is identity. This is explored by Burnham, regarding her being the Red Angel. It is also brought up by Detmer in the memorial scene. (That Airiam was able to reassure Detmer that her augmentation didn't make her less human was a very good take.) There was also a scene between Culbur and Cornwall about it.
However there is more, regarding Burnham's parents (also see below). She finds out, from Leland, that they worked for Section 31, designing advanced technology. (Wouldn'tit have been better to show this in flashbacks? Less tell and more show. Seems to be a theme?) And that the Klingons that attacked them were after the Section 31 technology. (Probably seem to be confusing Klingons and Romulans here. Maybe they were affiliated with the House of Duras...) In any case, the way Burnham confronts him was rather well done.
Then there's Spock, as always. But first, the plan the trap the Red Angel. Rather well planned. But surely if it was a future Burnham, that she would know it was a trap and plan accordingly? Clearly there's a flaw in their logic. Of course Spock takes it to the logical conclusion, that Burnham must be under threat of death in order for the Red Angel to appear. (And he's willing to disobey Pike in order to achieve this.) However, there is the final twist in this tale. (And not just what happened to Leeland...)
The final twist, that the Red Angel is Burnham's actual mother (not Amanda), certainly makes the previous revelation a red herring, but wouldn't their signatures be distinct? In any case, it isn't as good as the previous few episodes. 7.75
The tenth episode of season 2. Again, there are many plot lines in this episode. Opening with a memorial of Airiam was a very good choice. A very moving scene. The Kelpian song Saru sings was very appropriate. But the real revelations are what come later. That Airiam had a scan of the Red Angel that matched Burnham (like what), but would turn out to be a red herring. See below! Of course, Section 31 would be involved, along with Leland and the former Empress, given what happened to their headquarters.
Of course we don't see Discovery destroy the headquarters. Would it have been a good idea to show that? Most likely, but see above regarding the starting scene. However, one theme that is important in the episode is identity. This is explored by Burnham, regarding her being the Red Angel. It is also brought up by Detmer in the memorial scene. (That Airiam was able to reassure Detmer that her augmentation didn't make her less human was a very good take.) There was also a scene between Culbur and Cornwall about it.
However there is more, regarding Burnham's parents (also see below). She finds out, from Leland, that they worked for Section 31, designing advanced technology. (Wouldn'tit have been better to show this in flashbacks? Less tell and more show. Seems to be a theme?) And that the Klingons that attacked them were after the Section 31 technology. (Probably seem to be confusing Klingons and Romulans here. Maybe they were affiliated with the House of Duras...) In any case, the way Burnham confronts him was rather well done.
Then there's Spock, as always. But first, the plan the trap the Red Angel. Rather well planned. But surely if it was a future Burnham, that she would know it was a trap and plan accordingly? Clearly there's a flaw in their logic. Of course Spock takes it to the logical conclusion, that Burnham must be under threat of death in order for the Red Angel to appear. (And he's willing to disobey Pike in order to achieve this.) However, there is the final twist in this tale. (And not just what happened to Leeland...)
The final twist, that the Red Angel is Burnham's actual mother (not Amanda), certainly makes the previous revelation a red herring, but wouldn't their signatures be distinct? In any case, it isn't as good as the previous few episodes. 7.75
Vulcan joined the Federation on the proviso they could keep their personal information private. Archer agreed.
Precisely! Romulans are the only known sapient species that collectively enjoys awkward silences. Awkward babbling, however, is their equivalent of a Beagle peeing on a sacred tree.
When Tilly said the Angel's brain patterns matched Michael, I did wonder for a moment if it was going to turn out to be the Mirror version in the suit, and she was actually manipulating the crew. But I think it's more likely that our Michael will use the suit later in the series, resulting in Airiam's info.
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