Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x10 - "The Red Angel"

[fireproof78]

Then why bother with the expectation? If nothing matters, then nothing matters. It’s one thing when fans lose their shit over something but it’s another to be displeased by it. Divorcing yourself from reality no great goal.

That is an excellent question.

All I want is consistency is what doesn't work for people. If it didn't work in DSC then it should not work in other Treks is my attitude. By extension, we should not be surprised when Star Trek utilizes familiar tropes, especially when there are demands for Trek to be more familiar.

 

[XCV330]

By the way, it's my impression or this is the first time that a Star Trek character wears a collared shirt and jacket (outside time travels and/or Holosuites' scenarios...)?

Baron Grimes wears a shirt, jacket and tie.

 

[XCV330]

Oh damn. Didn't Virginia Hey from Farscape have a similar health related issue with her makeup?

John Rhys-Davies cited the gimli makup as one (of several) reasons he turned down an invite to come back for the Hobbit movies.

 

[Arpy]

That is an excellent question.

All I want is consistency is what doesn't work for people. If it didn't work in DSC then it should not work in other Treks is my attitude. By extension, we should not be surprised when Star Trek utilizes familiar tropes, especially when there are demands for Trek to be more familiar.

Infinity Gems is not Trek. And they’re shit science. They work for fantasy; they don’t for this period. Cage-Era Starfleet in no way would produce anything like that. That’s inconsistent with the Trek we know.

The episode makes a mess of so many logical issues. Their plan to capture the angel would not have worked if Burnham wasn’t in actual mortal danger yet they went with it anyway, and Spock us supposed to be cool fur not letting them save her?

Time travel as easy as it is here would mean total chaos in the Trek universe. We like to assume there are “reasons” it hasn’t been used more, but they’re profoundly less apparent in light of this episode.

Stamets (and maybe Culber) are not pansexual in the Mirror Universe if they’re gay in this one, unless you’re saying the more eeeevil you are the more sexual you are. Additionally, if this is the future and we’re all more at ease with our sexual fluidity, maybe everyone is “pansexual,” and being simply gay is anachronistic.

It was also silly to see how little they’ve thought about why and where the red bursts come from. It’s like the episode was written by someone who barely looked at earlier ones.

Again, weakest episode of the season. It’s jarring after how well they’ve been doing lately, especially.

 

[eschaton]

Tilly is not overweight, and I suspect that neither were you.

Tilly is certainly not obese. She might be a few pounds overweight, but she mostly just looks like a normal person.

The main problem is Trek uniforms look absolutely horrible on anyone who's not toned, rail thin, or wearing a girdle like Frakes/McNeill did. Excepting the TOS movie uniforms, which were specifically were designed to help hide weight.

 

[fireproof78]

Infinity Gems is not Trek. And they’re shit science. They work for fantasy; they don’t for this period. Cage-Era Starfleet in no way would produce anything like that. That’s inconsistent with the Trek we know.

Dilithium fits this description just as well.

Time travel as easy as it is here would mean total chaos in the Trek universe. We like to assume there are “reasons” it hasn’t been used more, but they’re profoundly less apparent in light of this episode.

I can remember in TOS (alone) going back in time through multiple avenues, some rather pedestrian, others rather extreme.

The episode makes a mess of so many logical issues. Their plan to capture the angel would not have worked if Burnham wasn’t in actual mortal danger yet they went with it anyway, and Spock us supposed to be cool fur not letting them save her?

Spock is cool? Oh, ok...totally took that away from the situation...

 

[BillJ]

Dilithium fits this description just as well.

I try to give Discovery the benefit of the doubt, as much as possible. But the time gems are garbage, it feels like an easy out for writers that aren't wanting to put the effort into any kind of more realistic explanation.

"Hey! I got it! Time crystals!"

In twenty years, we'll have to be explaining to people how they aren't real science.

 

[fireproof78]

I try to give Discovery the benefit of the doubt, as much as possible. But the time gems are garbage, it feels like an easy out for writers that aren't wanting to put the effort into any kind of more realistic explanation.

"Hey! I got it! Time crystals!"

In twenty years, we'll have to be explaining to people how they aren't real science.

I don't go to Star Trek for real science...

 

[BillJ]

I don't go to Star Trek for real science...

I may not be looking for real science, but it is nice all the same when writers make the effort. Besides, why the heck was time travel such a big deal in TOS when every one in the galaxy seems to know about time crystals seven years earlier?

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Garak tailored Culber's suit.

It's canon in my head.

 

[Amaris]

Just like dilithium and all sorts of Trek scientific misappropriations. It seems to me a bit odd that this one earns a Good Grief, That's Awful epithet.

People are going: Time Crystals, . I'm providing links that scientists do call a new state of matter this, and which has weird time RELATED properties (I'm not claiming it has Time TRAVEL properties in any way or that what is going on in Disco is SCIENCE FACT). Discovery has after all been accused repeatedly of turning Star Trek into flat out fantasy, and it appears to some I'm encountering this is another 'fantasy element' to point to.

It's why the Mycelial Network never bothered me, because when the series premiered, I was reading Dr. Paul Stamets Mycelium Running, and seeing the connections between his work and the show, stretched as it was to fit the sci-fi framework. It's just as plausible as dilithium crystals, phase inducers, and protomatter genesis devices.

 

[Alan Roi]

,

I try to give Discovery the benefit of the doubt, as much as possible. But the time gems are garbage, it feels like an easy out for writers that aren't wanting to put the effort into any kind of more realistic explanation.

"Hey! I got it! Time crystals!"

In twenty years, we'll have to be explaining to people how they aren't real science.

Well it could have been chroniton particles again, but they are a completely made up fantasy device. Or protomatter, another completely made up fantasy device. Hell, The Guardian of Forever is a big glowing crystalline rock. What is it made of? I wonder.

 

[Amaris]

,


So you would have preferred if it was chroniton particles? Or protomatter?

I think people aren't liking that the name is so simplistic. "Chroniton particles" sounds futuristic, while "time crystals" sounds Buck Rogers. It makes it feel somewhat campy and hackneyed, even though time crystals are a real thing.

 

[urbandefault]

I like to think that 300 years from now scientists will look back at this era and ROFL.

And they won't even know what ROFL means.

 

[BillJ]

,


So you would have preferred if it was chroniton particles? Or protomatter?

Who said either of those were preferable? Sometimes poor choices stick out like a sore thumb. And it still doesn't answer my question about time travel being a big deal in TOS when time crystals were apparently well known about seven years earlier.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I may not be looking for real science, but it is nice all the same when writers make the effort. Besides, why the heck was time travel such a big deal in TOS when every one in the galaxy seems to know about time crystals seven years earlier?

Most of their efforts are pretty weak. Surface gloss and name drops.
They discovered the slingshot effect in season one.
How big a deal was it? In Naked Time they figured out out the slingshot effect and I guess that made time travel a lot easier. No need for any special equipment.
Though they seem to have forgotten about it by Tomorrow is Yesterday.

 

[fireproof78]

I may not be looking for real science, but it is nice all the same when writers make the effort. Besides, why the heck was time travel such a big deal in TOS when every one in the galaxy seems to know about time crystals seven years earlier?

It would be nice for the writers to do so, but that is not my expectation of Trek writers. Hasn't been for years. One merely need to look at the "magic blood" debacle with Khan when there are real-world blood therapies that function just fine. Again, the only consistency I see in Star Trek science is that audiences can't agree on what fits and what doesn't.

As for later on in TOS, I have a wait and see attitude, just like with the spore drive. Story is not over yet.

It's why the Mycelial Network never bothered me, because when the series premiered, I was reading Dr. Paul Stamets Mycelium Running, and seeing the connections between his work and the show, stretched as it was to fit the sci-fi framework. It's just as plausible as dilithium crystals, phase inducers, and protomatter genesis devices.

Pretty much this.

 

[Alan Roi]

I think people aren't liking that the name is so simplistic. "Chroniton particles" sounds futuristic, while "time crystals" sounds Buck Rogers. It makes it feel somewhat campy and hackneyed, even though time crystals are a real thing.

Darn those 21st century scientists and not using indecipherable latinate or obcscure physics jargone when describing a new state of matter. It's like 'The Big Bang' and 'cosmic strings' all over again! The term time crystals is surely LOL objectionable when compared to those terms.

 

[Zod]

Thought this was a bit above average. I never wanted Michael to be the red angel and so that disappointed me till the big surprise ending. The ending made up for much of my disappointment. It moved this episode from a 6 to a 7 for me. So not great but not bad. Look forward to the next episode.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Darn those 21st century scientists and not using indecipherable latinate or obcscure physics jargone when describing a new state of matter. It's like 'The Big Bang' and 'cosmic strings' all over again! The term time crystals is surely LOL when compared to those terms.

Fragor magnus and filium mundi