Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x10 - "The Red Angel"

[Mr. Laser Beam]

or if it was Control using a synthetised voice while he was incapacitated.

That's probably what it was.

Control has already generated holograms of dead admirals; simply faking Leland's voice would be child's play.

 

[Gonzo]

She did not start the war. the Klingons did.

Yeah, the Klingons wanted a fight its just that Michael was the first to not just realise it but also try to do something about it, she almost succeeded.

The fact that the Federation did not want to fight makes no difference at all to the outcome.

 

[SJGardner]

That's probably what it was.

Control has already generated holograms of dead admirals; simply faking Leland's voice would be child's play.

Occam's Razor would agree with that. It's the most straightforward possibility for me as well.

 

[Fleet Admiral Tuvix]

I don't think that holds together. The only way she'd know about the danger was if she'd experienced it in her own past... and if that were the case, she'd also know the crew was standing by to rescue her if the RA didn't show up. Ergo: no need to show up.

It does hold together because, crucially, Spock got the phaser.

Perhaps I'm off base but I read the situation as follows: Spock saw that the safety measures were counterproductive but better to let everyone go about executing the rest of the plan than to waste time arguing.

I say this because I wanted to pause the episode to argue with my roommate's cat about everything, but decided to just let the episode play out. Then I realized Spock was doing the same thing.

Also the safety measures were there and made sense because if they realized they forgot some detail or needed to abort for other reasons, they needed to be able to.

"Oh hey, uh, Klingons are attacking, maybe now isn't a good time." <-- extremely rational, logically sound way to go about things.

So, overall, it makes perfect sense, but it did hinge on there being one extremely stubborn person there who would absolutely not let emotion get in the way.

 

[Gonzo]

My biggest question is why was Culber walking around in a suit the whole damn time, even at meetings?

I thought the Tilly "What just happened" was the funniest thing I've ever seen on Star Trek. The whole scene was so awkward until Tilly called it out.

I thought it was pretty clear in the scene, I think Georgiou could see what was going on with Stamets and Culber and so she decided to see if she could make one or both of them jealous and calling into question their sexual orientation, thus showing that they do actually still care for each other in spite of the obvious difficult situation.

From what I can see it actually worked even though it looks like Tilly blew a fuse or two.

 

[Fleet Admiral Tuvix]

I contradicted myself a bit by first taking the stance that the safety net was a bad idea and then going on to explain why the safety net made sense.

I shouldn't post hastily but I'm going to invoke "You Know What I Mean" privileges

Internally inconsistent hogwash on my part

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I assumed it killed him and then impersonated him through the comm...

While I too am pretty sure that the AI impersonated him through the comms, there is no reason for me to believe that he was necessarily killed. He might have just been incapacitated.

Then again maybe he is dead, but I think they would have made that less ambiguous to us viewers.

 

[KennyB]

While I too am pretty sure that the AI impersonated him through the comms, there is no reason for me to believe that he was necessarily killed. He might have just been incapacitated.

Then again maybe he is dead, but I think they would have made that less ambiguous to us viewers.

Nobody is really dead in Trek......unless a bridge falls on them.

 

[ozzfloyd]

One of the things I kinda hate about this season is the seeming "all casual dress is black" thing. One thing the Mudd episode got right last season was showing Stella in a TOS-ish outfit. While I don't expect cardboard sets, it would be nice to see some evidence that bright colors and retro-futuristic styles were in vogue.

My casual dress is all black 90%+ of the time.

 

[Stephen!]

Missiles. Lots of really big, ****-off planet-killing missiles.

It makes the Xindi weapon look primitive by comparison.

 

[donners22]

I suspect it might have implanted some kind of nanovirus into him...

I'd be going with "nanoprobes", particularly based on a moment in next episode's preview trailer.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I just want to know where the red angel was for all of season 1 when Michaels ass was on the line level times and started a HUGE war.

Fixed point in time.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

See also-- the half-brother that Spock never mentioned to Kirk despite serving over 20 years together.

They were good friends, and still, Spock never said a word until he had no other choice.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

I suspect Leland is a shapeshifter. One of "The Hundred" sent forth by the Founders. That eye thing looked like a droplet from the Great Link.

 

[Noname Given]

Also, the discussion of sexuality was a little odd. Maybe it's because I've grown up with the idea that Trek was beyond sexual labels in the future (I recall the first ever same-sex relationship depicted in a Trek novel, they were asked not to use any defining label) that to hear today's labels applied seemed... off.

The labels still exist - but no one cares or makes assumptions based on sexual (or gender) orientation. Hell, GR seems to posit that sex isn't a hangup in any way, and if the censors would have allowed it, there would be "Love Instructors" of every kind for anyone to 'consult' as they felt the need.

 

[Yistaan]

if the censors would have allowed it, there would be "Love Instructors" of every kind for anyone to 'consult' as they felt the need.

I still think paid Orion assistants for Vulcans going through Pon Farr should be a thing, since it's literally a life and death matter and prevents illogical betrothals like Spock/T'Pring, Koss/T'Pol, etc.

Spock: T'Pring, you prefer Stonn? Fascinating. (Spock then calmly walks off with an Orion escort and never looks back).

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Poor Stamets was about to call Sexual Harassment Panda.

 

[StefanM]

Nobody is really dead in Trek......unless a bridge falls on them.

...until Shatner gets the chance to write a book.

 

[cultcross]

It does hold together because, crucially, Spock got the phaser.

Perhaps I'm off base but I read the situation as follows: Spock saw that the safety measures were counterproductive but better to let everyone go about executing the rest of the plan than to waste time arguing.

I say this because I wanted to pause the episode to argue with my roommate's cat about everything, but decided to just let the episode play out. Then I realized Spock was doing the same thing.

Also the safety measures were there and made sense because if they realized they forgot some detail or needed to abort for other reasons, they needed to be able to.

"Oh hey, uh, Klingons are attacking, maybe now isn't a good time." <-- extremely rational, logically sound way to go about things.

So, overall, it makes perfect sense, but it did hinge on there being one extremely stubborn person there who would absolutely not let emotion get in the way.

It doesn't make perfect sense because the only reason future Burnham could know she needed help was if Present Day Burnham survived and remembered it. So the plan relies on Burnham surviving. And even if it did make sense, it's pretty weird that only Spock noticed what I assume the whole audience was shouting - "future Burnham knows it's a setup, dumbasses, because past Burnham knows it". There's a particular stupid moment where Burnham says something like "i deserve to know everything about this plan" Well no, you're the last person who should be told anything about it. You're basically an unwitting spy at this point.

Plus, now we know it is in fact not Michael, there's no way that the Angel should have known about what they were doing; so it working is apparently now either a complete fluke, or the entire story is a predestination paradox and events played out exactly like this anyway, and there is no 'first time through' the timeline, which is quite a different presentation to Trek's usual take on time travel.

 

[Noname Given]

It doesn't make perfect sense because the only reason future Burnham could know she needed help was if Present Day Burnham survived and remembered it. So the plan relies on Burnham surviving. And even if it did make sense, it's pretty weird that only Spock noticed what I assume the whole audience was shouting - "future Burnham knows it's a setup, dumbasses, because past Burnham knows it".

Plus, now we know it is in fact not Michael, there's no way that the Angel should have known about what they were doing; so it working is apparently now either a complete fluke, or the entire story is a predestination paradox and events played out exactly like this anyway, and there is no 'first time through' the timeline, which is quite a different presentation to Trek's usual take on time travel.

What 'usual take'?

I ask because we've had TOS episodes like:

- "Tomorrow Is Yesterday": Where they beam an F-104 pilot aboard, have an adventure and somehow beam him back before any of the events happen (yet when beaming into himself his mass doesn't double; and somehow the future him beamed in doesn't recall anything (Yet everyone on the 1701 remembers everything...)

- "City On The Edge of Forever": Where a drug addled McCoy jumps through an alien artifact goes back to Earth in the 1930ies and changes history to the point that neither the 1701 nor the Federation exists - leaving Kirk and Spock to go through the same artifact to set things right.

And then there's TNG:

- "Yesterday's Enterprise": The 1701-C comes into the Future and EVERYTHING INSTANTLY CHANGES - adventure ensues; but once back through the rift, 'Time' returns to normal (at least until TNG S5 - "Redemption II" where we see the results (although technically Sela was "In The Shadows" since TNG S4 - "The Mind's Eye").

- "Time's Arrow: Where Mark Twain comes through a time portal to the 24th century (yetr nothing changes in the 24th century); and again adventure ensues and he ultimately returns to the 19th century to deliver a message and help our heroes save Earth yet again.

My point: If there's ANYTHING that' consistent about the depiction of Time Travel in Star Trek; it's that said depictions have no consistency. Like Warp Drive distance traveled via a certain Warp Factor, the depiction of Time Travel in Star Trek is beholden to the needs of the plot.

Therefore the depiction of Time Travel in this episode was 100% consistent with every other Star Trek depiction of Time Travel.