Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I gave it a respectable 7/10
While I enjoyed the episode, especially how it looked, I had some misgivings
I'm not onboard with the Spock/Burnham interaction, it's forced, fake if you like, it doesn't stand scrutiny
And if all she's been upset about all these years is shouting bad things at her brother, well fuck me I must be a terrible person.
Stamets and Culber is interesting, I think we are heading down a path to tragedy here.
Pike, the best thing in the show so far, and Vina, was nice to see, but there's also impending tragedy there, because we already know his fate in the future.
I really don't understand why Spock needed to go to Talos IV or why he needed Burnham, maybe I'm not clever enough.
The Talosians were a bit easy going were they not ?
Saru, is getting to be a bit antsy, this will be interesting, and also there's the unmentioned Airiem problem obviously still to come, so they are positives
Giorgiou continues to impress, every time she's on screen it lights up the episode.
And then there's the Red Angels, they are going to kick the arse out of these till the last in the season aren't they ?
The only guy in all of the multiverses who can possibly, ever will, or already does, understand them, is Spock.
Conveniently.
At least the technobabble took a rest for this week's show, another plus.
While I enjoyed the episode, especially how it looked, I had some misgivings
I'm not onboard with the Spock/Burnham interaction, it's forced, fake if you like, it doesn't stand scrutiny
And if all she's been upset about all these years is shouting bad things at her brother, well fuck me I must be a terrible person.
Stamets and Culber is interesting, I think we are heading down a path to tragedy here.
Pike, the best thing in the show so far, and Vina, was nice to see, but there's also impending tragedy there, because we already know his fate in the future.
I really don't understand why Spock needed to go to Talos IV or why he needed Burnham, maybe I'm not clever enough.
The Talosians were a bit easy going were they not ?
Saru, is getting to be a bit antsy, this will be interesting, and also there's the unmentioned Airiem problem obviously still to come, so they are positives
Giorgiou continues to impress, every time she's on screen it lights up the episode.
And then there's the Red Angels, they are going to kick the arse out of these till the last in the season aren't they ?
The only guy in all of the multiverses who can possibly, ever will, or already does, understand them, is Spock.
Conveniently.
At least the technobabble took a rest for this week's show, another plus.
More what she she shouted. Cuts to the quick of who Spock is and something that he has carried with him for most of his life. TOS explores this in multiple episodes,
Works for me.
Tyler can't rejoin Discovery, at least not openly. Because if he does, then the jig is up and the Klingons know L'Rell lied to them about his and the baby's deaths. Hence not only will her head be stuck on a pike (er, sorry for the pun and the visual), but so can his. And the Klingons won't stop until they find the infant and most likely execute him.
It also really gives Amanda's exit in JtB an even harder twist of the knife.
'There must be some part of me in you, some part that I still can reach. If being Vulcan is more important to you, then you'll stand there speaking rules and regulations from Starfleet and Vulcan philosophy, and let your father die. And I'll hate you for the rest of my life.'
He going to start going by his middle name "Joe".
Yes I'm fully aware of Spock and his feeling of being somehow different because he wasn't 100% pure Vulcan.
But really ?
Two kids who are siblings and one says something wholely inappropriate to the other ?
It happens everywhere, every day, and most kids are totally resilient.
I can't believe that Spock would carry that conversation as a scar in his logical mind for 20 years or whatever.
If you've seen TOS, you know that it does.
Of course I've seen Star Trek
Enlighten me
Enlighten me
Spock has always been conflicted by his mixed heritage. It weighs on him. To have someone he admires and love throw that in his face has to hurt deeply. Just as it did when Kirk used the same epithet.
Can't say it adds to the Spock mythos in a credible way though. The young Spock-Burnham exchange really doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The animated Star Trek episode "Yesteryear" was, practically speaking, far more relevant. We know the other Vulcan children were cruel to Spock and that would be understandably scarring. Not one or two angry exchanges with a sibling.
It's different when one kid is adopted and/or of a different race than the others. That certainly happens, too, and it's much more painful.
One of my cousins is mixed-race and does not speak to her single race siblings who used to refer to her as "the Mexican." She has no contact with her mother either -- who allowed that crap to go on.
Yes, I know
But its what kids do.
He knew she didn't mean it, he told her as much
When Kirk said it, it was completely different and no less inappropriate, but it was a plot tool, used to anger him deliberately in one instance as a means to a cure from the spores, and in another it was used to warn Spock that he was dealing with a fake android Kirk.
In my experience it is often the people who are closest to a person that creates the defining moments in a person's life. Young children are extremely impressionable to what their siblings and parents tell them they are. I had no trouble believing that was a defining moment in Spocks life, as often its what happens to us when we are that young age that serves as the bedrock of who we are.
Except with those close to you there are generally a wealth of positive memories to mitigate the pain of the negative ones (they [Spock/Burnham] certainly did if we are to believe they were once as close as alluded to). What we were given between Spock and Michael in this episode was pretty weak. If their relationship was that fragile then I'd say they had both been lying to themselves and each other as to the sincerity and depth of their affection. Yes, there can be defining scars but to go from "loving siblings" to "you're dead to me (until I can use you)" is a pretty severe swing. One that would be motivated by more than what we given in this episode.
To not find the Spock/Burnham exchange one that would likely cause a rift between them is to not acknowledge that things affect different people differently.
Obviously, this affected Spock deeply. He revered his older sister, who he looked to to help understand his human side. She completely rejected him, told him he was incapable of love, and smashed his heart into pieces.
Perhaps there are folks in the audience who wouldn't give a shit. And that's fine. But obviously Spock was impacted in a very profound way. I don't find that hard to accept at all...and the actors and scripting sold it as such.
Much like the revelations in "Lethe," I found it to be a great addition to the TOS backstory.
Obviously, this affected Spock deeply. He revered his older sister, who he looked to to help understand his human side. She completely rejected him, told him he was incapable of love, and smashed his heart into pieces.
Perhaps there are folks in the audience who wouldn't give a shit. And that's fine. But obviously Spock was impacted in a very profound way. I don't find that hard to accept at all...and the actors and scripting sold it as such.
Much like the revelations in "Lethe," I found it to be a great addition to the TOS backstory.
You say it's what kids do, but you are ignoring that it's not what happened in Sarek's household, ever. Because they were being brought up in a different alien culture, not as humans. There were different expectations in terms of behavior.
Also, the show went out of its way to establish the fact that young Spock idolized Michael, was her little shadow. We also know he felt ostracized and bullied by his Vulcan peers, and was struggling with a learning disability which contributed to his feelings of isolation. He gained no physical affection from his father and his mother even admitted she gave all the love and joy and affection that she should have given to him to Michael because Sarek forbade her to treat him like a human child. So, the only person he starts to grow close to, whom he feels a connection to, who offers a different side of himself to explore (his human side) utterly rejects him. Tells him he's incapable of love. Calls him racist slurs. The one person he'd grown to trust and look up to, when all around him he'd felt hostility and disdain. Of course it was scarring. This was not two human siblings bickering 'like they always do'. There's absolutely no evidence that either child argued regularly or called each other names prior to this defining moment of their relationship.
Also, the show went out of its way to establish the fact that young Spock idolized Michael, was her little shadow. We also know he felt ostracized and bullied by his Vulcan peers, and was struggling with a learning disability which contributed to his feelings of isolation. He gained no physical affection from his father and his mother even admitted she gave all the love and joy and affection that she should have given to him to Michael because Sarek forbade her to treat him like a human child. So, the only person he starts to grow close to, whom he feels a connection to, who offers a different side of himself to explore (his human side) utterly rejects him. Tells him he's incapable of love. Calls him racist slurs. The one person he'd grown to trust and look up to, when all around him he'd felt hostility and disdain. Of course it was scarring. This was not two human siblings bickering 'like they always do'. There's absolutely no evidence that either child argued regularly or called each other names prior to this defining moment of their relationship.
I like the tale that is being spun here. Also the teasing - tantalizing hints of the antagonist, without giving too much away, leaving room for speculation and fan discussion.
Although, one thing did take me out of the story flow for a brief moment - "SQL injection" ? I mean, really? It's the 23rd century and with all that advanced technology they're still using SQL? Anyway, rant over.
Although, one thing did take me out of the story flow for a brief moment - "SQL injection" ? I mean, really? It's the 23rd century and with all that advanced technology they're still using SQL? Anyway, rant over.
When it reinforces what the bullies are saying it is.
No, it is not that at all. It's like a Judge Judy episode when she says, "If it doesn't make sense then it's a lie." Now, yes, different people may react differently, but in actuality, on average, people don't. The reaction to the offense strikes many (and I am one of them) as wildly disproportionate. Spock has never struck anyone as being that emotionally unstable or fragile especially over the long haul. It is an emotionally non sequitur reaction when factoring in how self-aware Spock is. And the notion Spock would refuse her earlier overtures to make amends just doesn't add up.
Now to be clear, I am not poo-pooing the storyline as merely pointing out a weakness within it (Like Kirk not raising the shields in The Wrath of Khan - still love the movie and all involved and know it was to service the plot but hey that bit was terrible writing). Star Trek Discovery has moments of great writing and moments of not so great writing. The Spock-Burnham exchange and fallout does not ring logical or true.
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