Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"

[jfordny]

The quid pro quo by the Talosians made Silence of the Lambs flash through my mind during a second viewing...

The Talosians were creepy voyeurs in the Cage, and it was interesting that Discovery didn't soften them at all. They made it clear that they wouldn't help Spock without Burnham giving them the memory they wanted. And Vina makes the point that Burnham better pay up, because it wouldn't be pleasant if the Talosians decided to make her cooperate.

It's why I never liked the Menagerie much, tbh. It's an incredibly clever use of the Cage footage, but Pike winding up on that planet is a horrible fate to me.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I've been thinking that for a couple of weeks now. Whoever it is has Majel's cadence down pat. The only way they could have done better is if they got Rebecca Romijn to be the voice of the computer.

Julianne Grossman does the voice

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0343672/?ref_=tt_cl_t8

 

[cultcross]

How you cope with this and it doesnt distract you?

Fairly easily; for my part I've never understood how people claim to be distracted or even made physically sick by camera work that differs from the old nineties TV show standards.
I love that they're doing something more visually exciting with it than they used to. You don't always just see the same 6 shot setups every week, which allows the director much greater scope to innovate and help tell the story visually (in a visual medium).

 

[Hythlodeus]

That would go with novel canon since there they mention that her voice was used for Starfleet’s computer.

Romijin is canon in Trek Lit? Nice
If so, does that mean the X-Men movies are too and if so, does PatStew play Xavier?
(This opens a big can of worms)

 

[Lord Garth]

I saw someone complaining that Spock shouldn’t have understood Michael’s line “How’s that beard working for you?”

They felt it was too ‘slangy’

Have they never seen a Star Trek episode with Spock before?

Some of these people don't know or remember the show as well as they think they do. Which makes it look worse when they think they're defending it. This is what I meant before when I said people who think Star Trek should be like TOS and TNG usually just mean TNG and think TOS should be seen and not heard. So they'll complain about how DSC doesn't look like TOS but when it comes to how the characters would actually act, they have it all wrong. Data's the one who wouldn't understand slang, not Spock.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Data's the one who wouldn't understand slang, not Spock.

Expect when he does, of course

 

[Lord Garth]

Expect when he does, of course

Usually preceded by "Accessing... ah!... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, BLAH!"

 

[Gov Kodos]

Some of these people don't know or remember the show as well as they think they do. Which makes it look worse when they think they're defending it. This is what I meant before when I said people who think Star Trek should be like TOS and TNG usually just mean TNG and think TOS should be seen and not heard. So they'll complain about how DSC doesn't look like TOS but when it comes to how the characters would actually act, they have it all wrong. Data's the one who wouldn't understand slang, not Spock.

Yeah, this is the Spock I remember. Beads and rattles, maybe he learned the art of the burn from his sister?

MCCOY: Yes. There's something odd about that man, and I can't quite pinpoint it.
SPOCK: Perhaps you're making a rather hasty judgment. Mister Norman has only been aboard seventy two hours.
MCCOY: I know when something doesn't strike me right, and he doesn't.
SPOCK: Specifics, Doctor. Labels do not make arguments.
MCCOY: All right. There's something wrong about a man who never smiles, whose conversation never varies from the routine of the job, and who won't talk about his background.
SPOCK: I see.
MCCOY: Spock, I mean that it's odd for a non-Vulcan. The ears make all the difference.
SPOCK: I find your argument strewn with gaping defects in logic.
MCCOY: Maybe, but you can't evaluate a man by logic alone. Besides, he has avoided two appointments that I've made for his physical exam without reason.
SPOCK: That's not at all surprising, Doctor. He's probably terrified of your beads and rattles.

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[SJGardner]

Data's the one who wouldn't understand slang, not Spock.

I wonder if they think Spock should've asked if stroking his beard thusly would make him appear more intellectual.

 

[Cyrus]

Review by KRAD:
https://www.tor.com/2019/03/08/old-new-borrowed-and-red-star-trek-discoverys-if-memory-serves/

I like this statement about the "previously on Star Trek" opening:
It also was a big middle-finger to those who insist that Discovery simply must take place in an alternate timeline

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, this is the Spock I remember. Beads and rattles, maybe he learned the art of the burn from his sister?

MCCOY: Yes. There's something odd about that man, and I can't quite pinpoint it.
SPOCK: Perhaps you're making a rather hasty judgment. Mister Norman has only been aboard seventy two hours.
MCCOY: I know when something doesn't strike me right, and he doesn't.
SPOCK: Specifics, Doctor. Labels do not make arguments.
MCCOY: All right. There's something wrong about a man who never smiles, whose conversation never varies from the routine of the job, and who won't talk about his background.
SPOCK: I see.
MCCOY: Spock, I mean that it's odd for a non-Vulcan. The ears make all the difference.
SPOCK: I find your argument strewn with gaping defects in logic.
MCCOY: Maybe, but you can't evaluate a man by logic alone. Besides, he has avoided two appointments that I've made for his physical exam without reason.
SPOCK: That's not at all surprising, Doctor. He's probably terrified of your beads and rattles.

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That's a scene that was usually cut out for syndicated edits and it was a shame because it was a moment of wonderful dialogue and interaction between Spock and McCoy, stressing both the Doctor's professional concern over the behavior of a new crewmember and Spock's oft-hidden but biting sarcasm and wit. Sometimes the syndication edits ruined the flow of episodes once you've seen the original, uncut versions as they first aired in the late 1960s.

 

[Ravenswood]

My God, I loved this episode.

And... Michael calling Spock a half-breed -- no wonder that insult worked so well in This Side of Paradise!

You just made me gasp! Thank you for that!

 

[guyute03]

10. Best episode so far. Discovery has found its place.

2x08 thoughts/things noticed

- ADORE the "Previously on Star Trek"
- Tellarite admiral
- blue flowers, Vina (forget the actress' name but she's awesome) (Dark City, 30 Days Of Night)
- I think one of the female Talosians was an actress who played a Sphere Builder on Enterprise
- Culber 2.0 reminds me of Neelix when he came back from the dead
- Pike, drinking.
- Ash/Culber common ground found
- "Evolved" Saru is awesome
- LOVE that this is a sequel of sorts to 'The Cage'
- LOVE that Vina's attire is reminescent of her's in 'The Cage'
- I hate Section 31. Actual hate.
- "Goodbye Spock"
- Burnham does the "Spock eyebrow"
- Red Angel is Human. Which Human? Someone we know already?

 

[Tosk]

forget the actress' name

Melissa George.

Which Human? Someone we know already?

Ja. The way in which they're teasing it out, it's a very good bet they are someone we know.

 

[Tomalak]

Did anyone else get a bit of a V'GER vibe when Spock was melding with the Red Angel?

 

[starbuck]

So the enterprise has had a refit since pike and spock visited Talos IV,if we go with the cage footage at the start of discovery.

 

[jespah]

You just made me gasp! Thank you for that!

Apparently the insult was used in another episode. I saw it on Memory Alpha as I had to look up the name of the ep -- thought it was The Paradise Syndrome, which is the one with Miramanee, ewps. I need to be properly caffeinated before I can look pretty much anything up right now.

But yeah, the half-breed insult immediately brought me back.

Disco wastes not a second nor a millimeter nor a beat. It is stuffed with art, canon, vision, and love for Trek.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The Talosians were creepy voyeurs in the Cage, and it was interesting that Discovery didn't soften them at all. They made it clear that they wouldn't help Spock without Burnham giving them the memory they wanted. And Vina makes the point that Burnham better pay up, because it wouldn't be pleasant if the Talosians decided to make her cooperate.

It's why I never liked the Menagerie much, tbh. It's an incredibly clever use of the Cage footage, but Pike winding up on that planet is a horrible fate to me.

If we’re to believe Vina (and there’s no reason not to believe her), it’s not a bad fate.

 

[Hythlodeus]

So the enterprise has had a refit since pike and spock visited Talos IV,if we go with the cage footage at the start of discovery.

nah, it's just a visual recast.

Since no one in this thread commented how Mount's Pike looked different to Hunter's Pike, I think it is safe to assume that people in general are fine with the idea of recasting characters with new actors that may not be identical but similar enough to the original actors for the purpose of portraying the same character on screen, because the original actors are no longer available. Following that logic that a recast of Pike, Spock, Number One et.al. is understandable and not a big deal and also postulating that the Enterprise often is seen not only as a prop, but as a character of importance in the Star Trek lore, just as Spock, Kirk or McCoy themselves, I believe it is easier for some who have a hard time understanding why the ship looks different, to look at it from that angle that the original model was simply recast by another, not identical, but similar enough for the purpose of portraying the same character the original model did. Not unlike the human actors were replaced by younger models to fit the intended narrative.

So, the term visual recast, instead of the often used term visual reboot, is a more fitting description of what DSC does and maybe easier to understand by even the most rabid and obessesiv #notmyenterprise #thedetailsarewrong part of the fandom.

 

[Bgt]

Fairly easily; for my part I've never understood how people claim to be distracted or even made physically sick by camera work that differs from the old nineties TV show standards.
I love that they're doing something more visually exciting with it than they used to. You don't always just see the same 6 shot setups every week, which allows the director much greater scope to innovate and help tell the story visually (in a visual medium).

I have seen a lot of Peak TV era shows (not in the nineties, but in the very recent years) that do not lean on random cheap visual tricks to support their stories.
Really curious now on how dozen of lens flares contribute on telling a scripted series' story better.