Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"

[Ovation]

Spock is in his early 20s. It’s not entirely surprising that he might not have attained the degree of psychological and yes, emotional, maturity for him to “get over it”.

 

[Lord Garth]

Spock is in his early 20s. It’s not entirely surprising that he might not have attained the degree of psychological and yes, emotional, maturity for him to “get over it”.

Late-20s, but with the way he tries to repress emotion, I can see his responses being under-developed when they surface.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Yes, that was definitely a ST09 flashback for me as well.

* *

Random thoughts:

This Vina wasn't quite as perky. She seemed more beaten down and vulnerable. She seemed to fit better as a character stuck on Talos IV. And the Talosians seemed more mean - kind of back in the shadows demanding things.

Not really liking the "New Saru." I LIKED the old Saru. I'm hoping that losing the fear doesn't make him a testy prick and he seems to be heading in that direction.

Come on, Spock. Get real. You're adult enough (especially after she explained why) to get over what happened. She was trying to SAVE you in her young, immature way. As an adult, she'd have probably figured out a better way. While you're not as annoying as Quinto's Spock was written (emo-Spock was what I called him), you're being a bit of an ass.

As much as I liked Mack's book, I'm really not into the Control thing. I hope that doesn't become dominant.

Section 31 doesn't seem quite so adept as it should be. And I'm getting bored of Georgiou, particularly when the writers *MUST* bring in her kewl fighting skills. Zzzz.

I wish they'd have skipped the whole Section 31 bit. I wasn't a big fan of it in DS9.

The Culber angle is interesting. I didn't foresee this part of his return. Will be interesting to see if he does fall for Stamets again, or not. Poor Stamets. Can't buy a break.

Spock does act a lot like his dad, after all. I especially liked how Peck hit the word absurd in response to Burnham's observation. Denial is not just a human river.

I really liked Vina. No matter how good the illusions, she will know that is what they are. The briefing room scene where she talked about her feelings after Pike left Talos really captured that vulnerability.

Talosians are just dicks, not unnecessarily cruel as though there is some needed level? The woman is pure Stockholm Syndrome by this point. The creepy smile on the Keeper's face when they put the illusion of perfect health back on her pretty well sums them up. It almost makes me say 'well done' to Georgiou for wiping them out in her universe. Assuming that wasn't an illusion in that universe.

 

[Tosk]

Assuming that wasn't an illusion in that universe.

My first thought as well!

 

[Uhura's Song]

IMO Pike/Vina has always been the best romance Trek has ever done, which is really telling. And really sad.

Not disagreeing, but Kirk & Joan Collins?

 

[Zod]

For the first time in this series I have been blown away. I felt like clapping at the end.

It was the best episode of the show and everything just clicked. I am now sure that this show has found its footing. Seeing the intro was amazing. Back to Talos4 I just loved it. Well paced, acted and with a well written story.

If certain youtubers are still going to nitpick, and we know who they are, they are just looking for any reason to hate on this show. They have no more rational basis.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Dont know where Stammets and Colbert is going.

Or Stamets and Culber for that matter.

 

[Tosk]

If certain youtubers are still going to nitpick, and we know who they are, they are just looking for any reason to hate on this show. They have no more rational basis.

To be fair, this episode rested hugely on looking back. If you changed the Talosian stuff to something else that we had never heard of (as in, a new backstory) much of the power would be lost. I liked the episode a lot, but if someone were to grade it harshly due to leaning on nostalgia that is not irrational in my opinion.

 

[Zod]

To be fair, this episode rested hugely on looking back. If you changed the Talosian stuff to something else that we had never heard of (as in, a new backstory) much of the power would be lost. I liked the episode a lot, but if someone were to grade it harshly due to leaning on nostalgia that is not irrational in my opinion.

I care not for the reason that I felt blown away, but just the fact that I was! It felt great and it gives me great hope for the future of this show. I love nostalgia. It was almost like---Last time on Star Trek from 50 years ago!.....Great stuff.

 

[Noname Given]

To be fair, this episode rested hugely on looking back. If you changed the Talosian stuff to something else that we had never heard of (as in, a new backstory) much of the power would be lost. I liked the episode a lot, but if someone were to grade it harshly due to leaning on nostalgia that is not irrational in my opinion.

^^^
Yep - HOW DARE the writers dive into 50+ years of Star Trek lore. There was some nostalgia on the part of the writing staff here, but come on the STORY they told here not only worked and worked well; it ADDED more layers to EXISTING stories in that now (for me) I have a reason Spock was wanting and willing to risk so much to give Pike some better QoL after his accident - and it explains how Spock (in "The Menagerie" was able to communicate so well with "The Keeper" whom Spock NEVER encountered directly in any way during the events of either "The Cage" or "The Menagerie". I also don't have an issue with Pike screaming "NO!" in "The Menagerie" as he's still a "By The Book" guy, plus he knows full well what the consequences for Spock could be and he still sees himself as Spock's 'Protector'; so for him, no, he doesn't want Spock to take the risk of STEALING a Starshp, plus taking it to a World that contact with merits the Death Penalty. Pike would still rather suffer than see ANYONE under his command (past or present) suffer (or die) because they tried to help Pike.

 

[Tai]

I have no trouble believing that Discovery is in the Prime Timeline... but uh, didn't the timeline get altered by the Red Angel visiting Spock and warning him of Michael's death? If the "Prime" timeline has Michael dying a grisly death early in Spock's childhood then she never serves on the Shenzhou. She never mutinies. The Battle of the Binary Stars and the Klingon War do not play out as shown in the first season...

 

[Alan Roi]

To be fair, this episode rested hugely on looking back. If you changed the Talosian stuff to something else that we had never heard of (as in, a new backstory) much of the power would be lost. I liked the episode a lot, but if someone were to grade it harshly due to leaning on nostalgia that is not irrational in my opinion.

I don't mind grading on nostalgia. But this ep wasn't a nostalgia ep. It was a deconstruction ep. it wasn't about waxing how great The Cage was, but offering a different perspective of it, and different use of it, and provokes different thoughts on it. Contrast this on, say this week's Orville, which was written to provoke a memory of how great the TNG ep The Wounded was but offering little or no new commentary on the original concept.

 

[Alan Roi]

I have no trouble believing that Discovery is in the Prime Timeline... but uh, didn't the timeline get altered by the Red Angel visiting Spock and warning him of Michael's death? If the "Prime" timeline has Michael dying a grisly death early in Spock's childhood then she never serves on the Shenzhou. She never mutinies. The Battle of the Binary Stars and the Klingon War do not play out as shown in the first season...

And the Klingons get the war they want, and based on everything we witnessed, the Federation loses and there is no TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY etc.

 

[Zod]

I don't mind grading on nostalgia. But this ep wasn't a nostalgia ep. It was a deconstruction ep. it wasn't about waxing how great The Cage was, but offering a different perspective of it, and different use of it, and provokes different thoughts on it. Contrast this on, say this week's Orville, which was written to provoke a memory of how great the TNG ep The Wounded was but offering little or no new commentary on the original concept.

Well we can't leave nostalgia out either, especially after that history making introduction.

 

[Tai]

And the Klingons get the war they want, and based on everything we witnessed, the Federation loses and there is no TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY etc.

I'm not trying to say that Michael Burnham's death at 13 years old leads to the destruction of the whole Federation... I'm just trying to figure out if the episode has showed us that she was never meant to live in the "Star Trek" universe that we know.

 

[Tosk]

I care not for the reason that I felt blown away, but just the fact that I was!

And I'm absolutely not saying you (or anyone else) shouldn't. My only point was that I can see why some might feel otherwise.

Yep - HOW DARE the writers did into 50+ years of Star Trek lore.

I never said they shouldn't.

 

[Zod]

And I'm absolutely not saying you (or anyone else) shouldn't. My only point was that I can see why some might feel otherwise.

Some might feel otherwise, yes that's true. On IMDB this is the first episode to get a 9.1 That's a very good job.

 

[Tuskin38]

I have no trouble believing that Discovery is in the Prime Timeline... but uh, didn't the timeline get altered by the Red Angel visiting Spock and warning him of Michael's death? If the "Prime" timeline has Michael dying a grisly death early in Spock's childhood then she never serves on the Shenzhou. She never mutinies. The Battle of the Binary Stars and the Klingon War do not play out as shown in the first season...

It altered the timeline yeah, but nothing says that alternation never happened before this series showed it.

Could be pre-destination, might be a causality loop. It will happen, it has always happened.

I'm not trying to say that Michael Burnham's death at 13 years old leads to the destruction of the whole Federation... I'm just trying to figure out if the episode has showed us that she was never meant to live in the "Star Trek" universe that we know.

The writing doesn’t say one way or another.

 

[Terok Nor]

Credit where it's due, that was a brilliant episode. The best one yet by far.

 

[Tuskin38]

I saw someone complaining that Spock shouldn’t have understood Michael’s line “How’s that beard working for you?”

They felt it was too ‘slangy’