Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x07 - "Light and Shadows"

[fireproof78]

Notice something about these?
They make in-universe sense, because there is a plausible story reason in each case.



And yes, these were already stretching it even back in the 60s.

But even they don't manage to come close to Burnham being the most important person in live to 1) Spock, 2) Sarek &Amanda, 3) Both the Universe Emperor and her biggest rival and now the chief of the most clandestine spy agency in the Federation also being personally involved in her tragic backstory.

Look, I'm one of the people that like Burnham. But that is absolutely because of the actress and her day-to-day acting, NOT her beyond-ridiculous fan-fiction backstory.

All of these connections make sense to Burnham in-universe. The only reason we care about Spock and Sarek is that we already know them. Otherwise, they are largely insignificant on a universe stage.

This is a general concept of fiction. It's easy to swing the other way and zero connections but then those connections come across as forced in order for the action to occur. What's actually kind of interesting about DSC is that it has taken some of the familial aspects that many liked in other shows and woven them into an actual family, with all the drama that entails.

It truly is no different than the mirror universe stories where Kirk can take on the role as his counterpart to try and undermine the Empire, or Mirror Bariel coming to ask Kira for help, and on and on.

 

[Rahul]

All of these connections make sense to Burnham in-universe. The only reason we care about Spock and Sarek is that we already know them. Otherwise, they are largely insignificant on a universe stage.

This is a general concept of fiction. It's easy to swing the other way and zero connections but then those connections come across as forced in order for the action to occur. What's actually kind of interesting about DSC is that it has taken some of the familial aspects that many liked in other shows and woven them into an actual family, with all the drama that entails.

It truly is no different than the mirror universe stories where Kirk can take on the role as his counterpart to try and undermine the Empire, or Mirror Bariel coming to ask Kira for help, and on and on.

Again: There is a certain kind of "forced" probabilities inherint in all serious fiction - like, isn't it hard to believe that this detective-duo has to solve all the most strangest murders in New York?

And then there is completely dropping the ball on this matter - like, how can it be the main detective is related to ALL the murderers and victims in every single main storyline?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Again: There is a certain kind of "forced" probabilities inherint in all serious fiction - like, isn't it hard to believe that this detective-duo has to solve all the most strangest murders in New York?

And then there is completely dropping the ball on this matter - like, how can it be the main detective is related to ALL the murderers and victims in every single main storyline?

Is that really happening?

 

[fireproof78]

Again: There is a certain kind of "forced" probabilities inherint in all serious fiction - like, isn't it hard to believe that this detective-duo has to solve all the most strangest murders in New York?

And then there is completely dropping the ball on this matter - like, how can it be the main detective is related to ALL the murderers and victims in every single main storyline?

Which is really happening in DSC. Burnham is assigned to a top secret ship, and if S31 had any involvement with the Klingon attack then their operatives would be nearby. Hey, look, dramatic convenience of some kind of personal connection. As others have demonstrated, this happened with Kirk more often than not in TOS, between Kirk's ex-girlfriends showing up (Areel Shaw, Janice Lester, Ms. Wallace), or Kirk having a connection to a visitor on a planet (Garth of Izar, Gov. Kodos), the person Kirk supposedly killed is a former friend and named his daughter after Kirk, Gary is Kirk's best friend, and on and on.

I guess this is a difference of how much it strains disbelief. Kirk's strains mine far more.

 

[Hythlodeus]

And then there is completely dropping the ball on this matter - like, how can it be the main detective is related to ALL the murderers and victims in every single main storyline?

Hey! Jessica Fletcher is NOT a detective!

 

[saddestmoon]

It looks like Airiam may have been indoctrinated...

Initially, when I saw this pic at first glance, I immediately assumed a red-versus-blue bussard-collector discussion had broken out...

[wink!]

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Reapers you say.....Trek ships win via plot armor

 

[Vger23]

Reapers you say.....Trek ships win via plot armor

We have dismissed this claim...

 

[eschaton]

Which is really happening in DSC. Burnham is assigned to a top secret ship, and if S31 had any involvement with the Klingon attack then their operatives would be nearby. Hey, look, dramatic convenience of some kind of personal connection. As others have demonstrated, this happened with Kirk more often than not in TOS, between Kirk's ex-girlfriends showing up (Areel Shaw, Janice Lester, Ms. Wallace), or Kirk having a connection to a visitor on a planet (Garth of Izar, Gov. Kodos), the person Kirk supposedly killed is a former friend and named his daughter after Kirk, Gary is Kirk's best friend, and on and on.

I guess this is a difference of how much it strains disbelief. Kirk's strains mine far more.

The thing is, TOS is an episodic show. So you can presume that during the "off camera adventures" Kirk was running into a lot more people who he didn't otherwise know. Or doing boring missions, staying on the ship when random redshirts had the fun, etc. Essentially we only got to see the fun/interesting bits, but a lot of boring stuff happened too.

 

[rahullak]

It's also perhaps challenging to bring a Lieutenant into the limelight all the time, where usually the captain and first officer get a large share of the protagonist focus, without it seeming unusual in-Universe.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

This episode has a sequel. It's called, "Spock's Brain". Where Spock's learning disability is cured by McCoy's skillful hands...

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

This episode has a sequel. It's called, "Spock's Brain". Where Spock's learning disability is cured by McCoy's skillful hands...

And his body becomes an RC toy..... Imagine the fun Chappel would have had with that.

 

[fireproof78]

The thing is, TOS is an episodic show. So you can presume that during the "off camera adventures" Kirk was running into a lot more people who he didn't otherwise know. Or doing boring missions, staying on the ship when random redshirts had the fun, etc. Essentially we only got to see the fun/interesting bits, but a lot of boring stuff happened too.

I don't see how that makes it better but OK...

 

[Mr Awe]

That's really not how it works...
That's stretching it even for fan-fiction.

Agreed. A number of us had discussed this up thread. There are some possible scenarios where it's not as cringeworthy as it first sounds. Perhaps Leland ran an operation that went south and a byproduct was that some people, including her parents, were killed rather than them being the direct targets. Even that is still very small universe.

I didn't have problems with her other connections, but this was one too far I thought!

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Hey! Jessica Fletcher is NOT a detective!

Indeed. In fact, Fletcher is probably the most prolific serial killer in television history.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Indeed. In fact, Fletcher is probably the most prolific serial killer in television history.

That is exactly what I told my niece who was a huge fan of that show.

There was a recent TV show along similar lines with a writer and a cop partnering up, and no it wasn't Castle but for that show I kept thinking the same thing too.

 

[cooleddie74]

The thing is, TOS is an episodic show. So you can presume that during the "off camera adventures" Kirk was running into a lot more people who he didn't otherwise know. Or doing boring missions, staying on the ship when random redshirts had the fun, etc. Essentially we only got to see the fun/interesting bits, but a lot of boring stuff happened too.

Counting "The Cage" the series has 80 episodes which if we added up all the adventures and made a rough guess as to how much of Kirk's first five-year mission was actually seen onscreen it would probably be a small minority of the time Kirk and his crew spent in deep space between 2265 and 2270. The story in "Balance of Terror" seemed to last for days while the Enterprise played cat-and-mouse with the Romulan Bird-of-Prey while other episodes probably happened over the course of a day or two at most and the mystery or crisis was solved or resolved in very little time.

A five-year mission would encompass about 1,826 days and I doubt the 79 episodes featuring Kirk showed us anything close to a majority of that timespan. Even if you add the 22 episodes of TAS that can't come close to representing most of Kirk's time in space during his first five-year mission.

 

[Gov Kodos]

That's exactly how it work in a lot pro-fiction. A personal connection between a hero and an antagonist. That's why Kirk's prosecutor in "Court Martial" is his old girlfriend and his alleged victim is his old teacher and friend. It's why the Salt Monster in "The Man Trap" has the form of McCoy's old girlfriend rather than some random woman. It why Kirk's former lover takes over Kirk's body in " Turnabout Intruder". It's why Kirk was at the Tarsus Colony during Kodos' reign of terror. It's why Gary became a god rather than Crewman X.

Not just that but the random freighter the Gov and Co were shipping out on just happened to be skippered by a pal of Kirk's willing to strand the company for a pal.

 

[oberth]

just happened to be skippered by a pal of Kirk's willing to strand the company for a pal.

that's rather understandable as he's just so proud that he - as a mere freighter captain - knows everybody's hero. of course he does everything to please his buddy

 

[CommanderRaytas]

She's the main character. She gets to have those connections. Just like Kirk did back in the day.

Precisely. We're following these people, so the things that happen to them are related to them a lot of the times. It would be like watching Sisko go through his day not having anything to do with events unfolding around him. He actually became part Prophet, destined to save the universe or some shit. And then people complain that stuff is actually sort of connected to one of the focus characters in the new show? Give me a break.