Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x07 - "Light and Shadows"

[Nyotarules]

All the original big powers of that part of the quardrant are nestled uncomfortably close together. Four of them did the sensible thing and formed a federation, the Klingons started pushing out into their own back yard. It makes one wonder what happened to all the nearby never-to-be-heard-from again planetary civilizations NX-01 visited on her first voyages prior to the Xindi war.

After meeting Porthos they decided thanks but no thanks

 

[Rahul]

She's the main character. She gets to have those connections. Just like Kirk did back in the day.

That's really not how it works...
That's stretching it even for fan-fiction.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Klingons see a new planet, and then they have sex with it.

A generation later, it's a planet of mostly klingons and their non Klingon grandparents.

Slow motion Borg.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Then couldn't they have just used more time travel shanaigans to undiscredit themselves?

Then you get the DTI involved, and it becomes a whole thing.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Is still annoys me that a TOS episode that originally ran 50 minutes has now been reduced on most cable and digital TV channels to 43 minutes and given some often very choppy and eyeroll-inducing editing. I get it. More commercials mean more ad revenue and that's how stations and channels survive, but still.

Come on. Some of the most recent editing on TOS episodes is laughably sloppy.

So completely agree (though 43 minutes is being generous by today's standards). I believe broadcast is regulated while cable not so much. Then there's the broadcast networks and syndication. At least there used to be (I've been in exile the last 5 years or so). Used to be 51 minutes then 48 then 45 now some are barely 40. Ratio wise it went form 5:1 to now it is barely 3:1. Check out Big Bang Theory on CBS AA and you'll see they are between 19 and 20 minutes. Makes me raise a clenched fist to the heavens and scream, "KHHAAANNNN!"

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's really not how it works...
That's stretching it even for fan-fiction.

That's exactly how it work in a lot pro-fiction. A personal connection between a hero and an antagonist. That's why Kirk's prosecutor in "Court Martial" is his old girlfriend and his alleged victim is his old teacher and friend. It's why the Salt Monster in "The Man Trap" has the form of McCoy's old girlfriend rather than some random woman. It why Kirk's former lover takes over Kirk's body in " Turnabout Intruder". It's why Kirk was at the Tarsus Colony during Kodos' reign of terror. It's why Gary became a god rather than Crewman X.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Editing can be a real mess when they significantly shorten an episode or movie.

I remember during the strike-shortened NFL season, ABC broadcast The Search for Spock in the time slot where Monday Night Football would have been. The editing ended up changing elements of the plot!

It should be mentioned that sometimes (rarely) it could work the other way. ABC for a few years in the early to mid eighties were great. They'd sometimes add footage I know they did it with Star Trek: TMP and The Wrath of Kahn as well as Superman: The Movie. Probably others that have since faded from my Lays brand memory chips.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Klingons see a new planet, and then they have sex with it.

A generation later, it's a planet of mostly klingons and their non Klingon grandparents.

Slow motion Borg.

It's called "imperialism" has happened throughout human history.

 

[Rahul]

That's exactly how it work in a lot pro-fiction. A personal connection be a hero and an antagonist. That's why Kirk's prosecutor in "Court Martial" is his old girlfriend and his victim is his old teacher and friend. It's why the Salt Monster in "The Man Trap" has the form of McCoy's old girlfriend rather than some random woman.

Notice something about these?
They make in-universe sense, because there is a plausible story reason in each case.

It why Kirk's former lover takes over Kirk's body in " Turnabout Intruder". It's why Kirk was at the Tarsus Colony during Kodos' reign of terror.

And yes, these were already stretching it even back in the 60s.

But even they don't manage to come close to Burnham being the most important person in live to 1) Spock, 2) Sarek &Amanda, 3) Both the Universe Emperor and her biggest rival and now the chief of the most clandestine spy agency in the Federation also being personally involved in her tragic backstory.

Look, I'm one of the people that like Burnham. But that is absolutely because of the actress and her day-to-day acting, NOT her beyond-ridiculous fan-fiction backstory.

 

[eschaton]

I really don't get how people still haven't adjusted to this. I can only assume they've gone straight from 2004 to 2019 without watching movies or TV and are experiencing futureshock. And its not like I'm young, have amazing eyesight or the hearing I had twenty years ago. I even have some tinnitus, yet I have had absolutely no trouble with any bit of dialogue or the direction/editing at any point in the show. I could even make out each and every word the Ba'ul said the first time around. And I had tears in my eyes at Saru's near death scene. Weird. Its almost as if they won't let themselves adjust out of some principle or something.

I admit I'm much more of a reader/gamer than a TV guy. I stopped owning a TV back in 2001, and watched very little TV until Netflix took off.

That said, I have since watched a lot of modern productions, including Game of Thrones, The Expanse, Altered Carbon, Lost in Space, Penny Dreadful, ect. The direction, cinematography, and sound mixing is a lot more straightforward than Discovery in all of them.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Notice something about these?
They make in-universe sense, because there is a plausible story reason in each case.

We haven't even see that story yet. So it's a bit early to call it implausible.

And yes, these were already stretching it in the 60s. But even they don't manage to come close to Burnham being the most important person in live to 1) Spock, 2) Sarek &Amanda, 3) Both the Universe Emperor and her biggest rival and now the chief of the most clandestine spy agency in the Federation also being personally involved in her tragic backstory.

That's a bit hyperbolic. Sarek, Spock and Amanda are her family. Of course they are important.
Georgiou's connection is to her Michael, not the Prime one. She might like it Prime felt the same
I doubt Burnham is all that important to Leland.

NOT her beyond-ridiculous fan-fiction backstory.

Like "Mary Sue", fan fiction is overused and misused by critics trying to find something wrong.

 

[eschaton]

That's exactly how it work in a lot pro-fiction. A personal connection between a hero and an antagonist. That's why Kirk's prosecutor in "Court Martial" is his old girlfriend and his alleged victim is his old teacher and friend. It's why the Salt Monster in "The Man Trap" has the form of McCoy's old girlfriend rather than some random woman. It why Kirk's former lover takes over Kirk's body in " Turnabout Intruder". It's why Kirk was at the Tarsus Colony during Kodos' reign of terror. It's why Gary became a god rather than Crewman X.

That said, the "small universe syndrome" in TOS was more forgivable because Kirk himself was presented as just a regular old captain and nothing special for the most part.

 

[Rahul]

Like "Mary Sue", fan fiction is overused and misused by critics trying to find something wrong.

If your work as a fatal flaw, it's dishonest to dismiss criticism of this flaw only because other, sometimes more obnoxious people have pointed it out already.

 

[137th Gebirg]

That's some weak ass Klingon cosplay.

Actually, the Klingons are weak ass Nomen cosplayers.

 

[Vger23]

I always assume that there are Michael Burnhams, Kirks, and Picards all over Starfleet and throughout the Federation, actually. I always just assume the show being documented is about one of the more interesting or historically relevant characters, but I figure these kinds of gifted people are all over the place in a Federation of trillions.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If your work as a fatal flaw, it's dishonest to dismiss criticism of this flaw only because other, sometimes more obnoxious people have pointed it out already.

Since it's not "fan fiction" it's not a flaw. No matter who tries to claim it is.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's called "imperialism" has happened throughout human history.

Passing on citizenship liberally is different from the institutionalized rape of billions.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That said, the "small universe syndrome" in TOS was more forgivable because Kirk himself was presented as just a regular old captain and nothing special for the most part.

But he seems to always run into people he knows who are in extraordinary situations or he winds up in extraordinary situations. Like his first officer being the son of Vulcan's top diplomat. A diplomat who is in the middle of a thorny negotiation and is accused of murder!!!!!

 

[eschaton]

But he seems to always run into people he knows who are in extraordinary situations or he winds up in extraordinary situations. Like his first officer being the son of Vulcan's top diplomat. A diplomat who is in the middle of a thorny negotiation and is accused of murder!!!!!

I know what you mean. But at the same time, TOS got the sense of scale better than the later shows, so you could presume Sarek was one of the 100 most important Vulcan diplomats or something.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I know what you mean. But at the same time, TOS got the sense of scale better than the later shows, so you could presume Sarek was one of the 100 most important Vulcan diplomats or something.

But the only one sent to Babel on the ship where his estranged son is the First Officer. Which is far more dramatic than random Vulcan diplomat that Spock doesn't know.