Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x07 - "Light and Shadows"

[eschaton]

I honestly think there are fans who would eat it up. People seem more interested in Star Trek being "real" than it being "entertaining"

There are two kinds of hardcore Star Trek fans: Those who like to read Memory Alpha, and those who like to read fanfic.

I will freely admit I'm the former. That said, I understand this is a minority position, and Trek cannot and should not cater to people like me.

 

[oberth]

There are two kinds of hardcore Star Trek fans: Those who like to read Memory Alpha, and those who like to read fanfic.

I will freely admit I'm the former. That said, I understand this is a minority position, and Trek cannot and should not cater to people like me.

#2 - count me in

 

[eschaton]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

True enough. However, I think it's hard to call the Ferengi episodes entirely filler due both to how much they contributed to character growth in Quark, Rom, and Nog, as well as how there was an entire Ferengi sublot in the final arc which resulted in Rom becoming Grand Negus (however silly that might be).

Thowaway episodes in DS9 are ones like where they shrunk the runabout. They didn't add anything either to the seasonal arc or to the development of the characters.

 

[fireproof78]

True enough. However, I think it's hard to call the Ferengi episodes entirely filler due both to how much they contributed to character growth in Quark, Rom, and Nog, as well as how there was an entire Ferengi sublot in the final arc which resulted in Rom becoming Grand Negus (however silly that might be).

Thowaway episodes in DS9 are ones like where they shrunk the runabout. They didn't add anything either to the seasonal arc or to the development of the characters.

In the early part of the show that would be hard to discern. In hindsight, certainly we can see the development. But, looking at it from a fan trying to get in to the show it was very off putting.

 

[Vger23]

There are two kinds of hardcore Star Trek fans: Those who like to read Memory Alpha, and those who like to read fanfic.

I will freely admit I'm the former. That said, I understand this is a minority position, and Trek cannot and should not cater to people like me.

I understand what you're saying. I'm actually with you. I own all the reference materials and LOVE them! The encyclopedias (all versions), the tech manuals, the star charts, the chronology....all awesome stuff.

But, for whatever reason, the moment that stuff doesn't work any more, it doesn't bother me. I think I put myself in the third category...which is "I just want to enjoy what's on the screen." So, while I love my chronologies, Memory Alpha, and encyclopedias....I love the experience of simply watching the show or movie with an open mind even more.

 

[Vger23]

In the early part of the show that would be hard to discern. In hindsight, certainly we can see the development. But, looking at it from a fan trying to get in to the show it was very off putting.

I used to outright skip the Ferengi episodes on DS9. Just wasn't my cup of tea. I generally didn't like the Klingon episodes of TNG either.

I don't dislike them, but I'm more of a fan of the main line adventures.

 

[penguin44]

General order 7 may not be in play yet. Perhaps it was put into place after this incident, maybe something to do with the red angels.

Agreed.I was thinking that as well. Perhaps this is the reason GO7 was implemented. (otherwise the computer should have said something to Burnham)

 

[CommanderRaytas]

So one minor point. I'm personally not a fan of Tilly. She doesn't seem to have the makeup of a Starfleet officer. I think she is more like a funny co-worker at best, but her character belongs on a sitcom, not Starfleet.

However, she made one observation that I had never noticed, and it's 100 percent right.

Everything does sound cooler when you stick the word "time" in front of it.

It's almost like the "in bed" joke with fortune cookies.

Speak for yourself. Tilly is my other darling.

 

[fireproof78]

I understand what you're saying. I'm actually with you. I own all the reference materials and LOVE them! The encyclopedias (all versions), the tech manuals, the star charts, the chronology....all awesome stuff.

But, for whatever reason, the moment that stuff doesn't work any more, it doesn't bother me. I think I put myself in the third category...which is "I just want to enjoy what's on the screen." So, while I love my chronologies, Memory Alpha, and encyclopedias....I love the experience of simply watching the show or movie with an open mind even more.

Same here. It's not like I feel the need to sit with my encyclopedias propped open as I watch. Nothing against individuals who do but, for me, that's taking away from getting invested with the characters on screen in that moment.

I used to outright skip the Ferengi episodes on DS9. Just wasn't my cup of tea. I generally didn't like the Klingon episodes of TNG either.

I don't dislike them, but I'm more of a fan of the main line adventures.

Same here. The Klingon arc in TNG, to this day, irritates me. Definitely not for me.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I just dislike Klingons on principle.

 

[Vger23]

I just dislike Klingons on principle.

Klingon bastards.

 

[fireproof78]

I just dislike Klingons on principle.

Pretty much.

 

[eschaton]

Same here. The Klingon arc in TNG, to this day, irritates me. Definitely not for me.

You can tell that Ron Moore was still young and figuring out how to write. He attempted to construct an arc which seemed "epic" in scope, but because of the low budgets of TNG, it just made the Trekverse seem small and shabby. I mean, Kirk never met with anyone (until TUC) in the Klingon Empire higher than Captain. Worf and Picard in contrast personally parley with Chancellor Gowron multiple times. It made Qonos seem like a not particularly large town more than the capital planet of an empire.

 

[Vger23]

You can tell that Ron Moore was still young and figuring out how to write. He attempted to construct an arc which seemed "epic" in scope, but because of the low budgets of TNG, it just made the Trekverse seem small and shabby. I mean, Kirk never met with anyone (until TUC) in the Klingon Empire higher than Captain. Worf and Picard in contrast personally parley with Chancellor Gowron multiple times. It made Qonos seem like a not particularly large town more than the capital planet of an empire.

Not to get too far into the weeds, but I often wonder if the Klingon "Empire" is truthfully any more than just that. They are filled with bluster and arrogance to make it feel big and important, because that's who they are...but they're really nothing more than a single-culture, single-race government with a shit-ton of military resources, and that's why they are a "power." In fact, that explains their imperialism perhaps.

 

[fireproof78]

You can tell that Ron Moore was still young and figuring out how to write. He attempted to construct an arc which seemed "epic" in scope, but because of the low budgets of TNG, it just made the Trekverse seem small and shabby. I mean, Kirk never met with anyone (until TUC) in the Klingon Empire higher than Captain. Worf and Picard in contrast personally parley with Chancellor Gowron multiple times. It made Qonos seem like a not particularly large town more than the capital planet of an empire.

Also makes Worf's killing Gowron in DS9 all the more off putting to me.

 

[cooleddie74]

There are two kinds of hardcore Star Trek fans: Those who like to read Memory Alpha, and those who like to read fanfic.

I will freely admit I'm the former. That said, I understand this is a minority position, and Trek cannot and should not cater to people like me.

I read both. I'm a sick, sick man.

 

[fireproof78]

I read both. I'm a sick, sick man.

You just need Dr. Adam's deneuralizer treatment.

 

[cooleddie74]

Paging Dr. Helen Noel...paging Dr. Helen Noel!

 

[Kirk Prime]

Speak for yourself. Tilly is my other darling.

I believe the phrase "I'm personally not a fan of Tilly," pretty much flat out says that I'm speaking for myself. Too difficult?

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I believe the phrase "I'm personally not a fan of Tilly," pretty much flat out says that I'm speaking for myself. Too difficult?

Someone should explain to you the human custom known as 'humour'. Then maybe you wouldn't have wasted your time typing up an uncalled-for, pissy response to a painfully obvious joke. Bye, now.