Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x06 - "The Sound of Thunder"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I could be wrong, but i think the drone ships were part of the Ba'ul complex, at least that's how it looked. Even if the Ba'ul ships were still orbit, it's possible they were deactivated when the complex was shut down. Also, all of the Kelpiens have gone through the Vahar'ai. It's possible that even if the Ba'ul could harm them, they won't as it would destroy the balance. There has to be a specific reason why they didn't wipe out the kelpiens totally when they had the chance.
That's their CPD (convenient Plot Device) now.
Thank God speculation the Ba'ul might be the Ferengi turned out false.
Not convenient, built in. The Red Angel has been overtly or otherwise guiding them through the season.That's their CPD (convenient Plot Device) now.
So true. Everything connects. I’m sooo looking foreward to how it plays out! That makes it the most succesful story arc in Trek ever for me. With the Xindi or Dominion arc I really never had that, that strong feeling of ‘I want to know what’s going on, how it ends!’.. I find the Red Angel extremely interesting!
Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding and the infraction. You had previously indicated that you didn't have CBSAA during the Short Treks and were downloading from "other sources" on the internet. I have reversed the infraction.
And if anyone else has something to say about this, Comments to PM.
It would be nice if people didn't jump down our throats when we're trying to enforce board policy and responding to notifications. Sometimes we can make mistakes too, and we try to rectify them. Don't treat everything like we're jackbooted thugs out to get you (this is not referring to you, thribs, as you were quite polite about it).
Last edited:
The plot might have been full of holes and a lot of what we saw was a little OTT, but this was the first Discovery episodes that gave me goosebumps. Pacing and how the episode unfolded was spot on for me.
Great episode and helped enormously by not having to watch a Tilly 'moment'
Great episode and helped enormously by not having to watch a Tilly 'moment'
Wow, I'm watching the awesome Doug Jones on The Ready Room and he's talking about the Ba'ul design. Apparently that black goop dripping from the actor was real, not CGI. "With a base of Elmer's glue." Javier had on a wig with long strands hanging over the front of his face. His whole costume and the rising out of the pool was practical effects (with the swirling black vapor presumably added in later). Also an initial idea was to have Doug play the Ba'ul, to make a point that the Kelpiens and Ba'ul were almost mirrors of each other. I'm glad they didn't go that way, but you can see that they kept with the idea of a similarity of form to the Kelpiens as a deliberate thing.
He also talked about how he and Hannah developed the forehead touching on the day as a Kelpien gesture to show the familial bond.
They also filmed both episode 6 and the Short Trek "The Brightest Star" at the same time, since its the same location and because they were using the actress for Siranna.
He talks about Saru's change being like going from adolescence to adulthood. And that his out of character standing up to Pike on the bridge was like him turning 18 years old and having to still live with his parents, under their rules. A cool analogy.
He also talked about how he and Hannah developed the forehead touching on the day as a Kelpien gesture to show the familial bond.
They also filmed both episode 6 and the Short Trek "The Brightest Star" at the same time, since its the same location and because they were using the actress for Siranna.
He talks about Saru's change being like going from adolescence to adulthood. And that his out of character standing up to Pike on the bridge was like him turning 18 years old and having to still live with his parents, under their rules. A cool analogy.
If other Kelpians have roughly the same intellectual capacity and ability to adapt of Saru, once they break their indoctrination, they should be able to adapt to using the Ba'ul technology fairly quickly.
I would assume now that Pike has directly involved the Federation in their conflict, the Kelpians will come under Starfleet protection, and by extension, the Ba'ul if the Kelpians should try and expand and become belligerent again themselves.
The Sound of Thunder
The sixth episode of season 2. A Red Angel leads Discovery to Saru's homeworld of Kaminar, where he wants to go down and tell his people that they had been lied to. This follows up from An Obol of Charon (but also the previous episode with Culbur). The main story is Saru fighting with the Prime Directive in wanting to tell his people that the 'Great Balance' is a lie. But there are other plot threads. The ongoing Red Angel and Section 31 storylines, and the ongoing analysis of the Sphere's knowledge.
The way the changes in Saru's personality are delivered were done very well. The lack of fear has caused aggression in Saru, and this is shown in the early Bridge scenes very well. He barely pays attention to Captain Pike's orders to not talk to the Ba'ul while he is talking to them. (Indeed the entire bridge crew is on edge when Saru is stalking the bridge as they orbited Kaminar.) The establishing scene in Saru's village sets up the situation there very well, showing the pastoral setting very well.
The introduction of Saru's sister, Sirella, as the village's priest was also done very well. It would also be believable that she would be upset that Saru only came back to Kaminar because of the Red Angel. The ensuing events both on Discovery and when Saru gets abducted by the Ba'ul are easy to follow and well presented. (Although would 10 Ba'ul ships really outgun Discovery given that they only attained Warp capability 20 years prior?) In any case the resolution to this climax comes completely out of left field.
But it is an interesting climax (even if the Prime Directive is broken). Information on Kaminar in the Sphere's data leading to forced 'evolution' of the Kelpiens? Certainly an interesting development. But then there is the appearance of the Red Angel on Kaminar as the above is happening. Saru is able to see that it's just a humanoid in a suit (far more advanced than the Federation), nothing divine. (Not that I thought they would be to begin with.) Overall this is a good continuation of the Discovery story.
8.25/10.
The sixth episode of season 2. A Red Angel leads Discovery to Saru's homeworld of Kaminar, where he wants to go down and tell his people that they had been lied to. This follows up from An Obol of Charon (but also the previous episode with Culbur). The main story is Saru fighting with the Prime Directive in wanting to tell his people that the 'Great Balance' is a lie. But there are other plot threads. The ongoing Red Angel and Section 31 storylines, and the ongoing analysis of the Sphere's knowledge.
The way the changes in Saru's personality are delivered were done very well. The lack of fear has caused aggression in Saru, and this is shown in the early Bridge scenes very well. He barely pays attention to Captain Pike's orders to not talk to the Ba'ul while he is talking to them. (Indeed the entire bridge crew is on edge when Saru is stalking the bridge as they orbited Kaminar.) The establishing scene in Saru's village sets up the situation there very well, showing the pastoral setting very well.
The introduction of Saru's sister, Sirella, as the village's priest was also done very well. It would also be believable that she would be upset that Saru only came back to Kaminar because of the Red Angel. The ensuing events both on Discovery and when Saru gets abducted by the Ba'ul are easy to follow and well presented. (Although would 10 Ba'ul ships really outgun Discovery given that they only attained Warp capability 20 years prior?) In any case the resolution to this climax comes completely out of left field.
But it is an interesting climax (even if the Prime Directive is broken). Information on Kaminar in the Sphere's data leading to forced 'evolution' of the Kelpiens? Certainly an interesting development. But then there is the appearance of the Red Angel on Kaminar as the above is happening. Saru is able to see that it's just a humanoid in a suit (far more advanced than the Federation), nothing divine. (Not that I thought they would be to begin with.) Overall this is a good continuation of the Discovery story.
8.25/10.
Making them all hit puberty with their “puberty Ray” does seem rather wrong and I’ll advised. Maybe there is a reason it takes a certain amount of time before they go through it. For all they know they’ve stunted a huge segment of their population.
They would do this but telling some humans on a distant planet about Earth is a strict no no.
They would do this but telling some humans on a distant planet about Earth is a strict no no.
Obviously the Ba'ul aren't Armus, but it's entirely plausible that Armus could have been the product of the Ba'ul. The physical resemblance of the gooey part is there, ie, if you took away the structure the remaining goop could easily be Armus. The only real hint against it is the 'Titans' description - the Ba'ul don't seem very 'titanic' - but that's a throwaway description that Armus never really explains so it could literally mean almost anything.
I doubt that will turn out to be the case, but it's understandable that people see it as a possibility.
Everything would scare the Kelpians pre-vaharai. Post vaharai Saru wasn't even a little phased by the Ba'ul. This seems like a completely baseless speculation.
Don't forget that Armus had psychokinetic powers which it blasted Tasha with, killing her, and was able to forcibly take over Data's body to make him do what it wanted. Abilities which surely would have come in handy if the Ba'ul had originally possessed them.
It's been heavily implied that the Ba'ul are frail, afraid and (Doug mentions this in the Ready Room interview) they hide behind their technology.
An interesting line from the episode that the Ba'ul says to Saru: "Your kind should never govern itself."
There's a lot to unpack here. I'm loving the implications. But also the possibility of stories further down the line or novel material. Perhaps they won't be able to reach a new balance. I'd like to see what happens later at some point. If it becomes a cautionary tale, so be it.
It's been heavily implied that the Ba'ul are frail, afraid and (Doug mentions this in the Ready Room interview) they hide behind their technology.
An interesting line from the episode that the Ba'ul says to Saru: "Your kind should never govern itself."
There's a lot to unpack here. I'm loving the implications. But also the possibility of stories further down the line or novel material. Perhaps they won't be able to reach a new balance. I'd like to see what happens later at some point. If it becomes a cautionary tale, so be it.
That is a very good point and one I have been thinking about today and wondering where they all went though. How many of them were on their command ship? Saru was able to cobble together comms with the Discovery with zero resistance. Plus if anyone was in a position to monkey around with that ship it was Saru and he should have stuck around to see what more he could have done.
I'm thinking things will blow up a little on their homeworld sooner then later.
If anything Fuck the Ba'ul they should take their ships and fuck off and leave the Kelpians alone that's my opinion.
Although very 23rd century and Kirk-like in its brazen embrace of what Pike and his senior officers consider to be morally correct over a strict interpretation of the Prime Directive. To that extent it's a TOS kind of response to seeing a sentient species being enslaved and terrorized by a more powerful intelligence.
As for why the Ba'ul won't just up and try genocide again once they repair their tech, how much of the Red Angel's actions did they see? As far as they know, the Angel has now placed the NuKelpiens under its protection and can/will disable their tech again if they do anything other than use it to stay safe.
OR they think the Federation did it, and thus will be even more inclined NOT to piss them off misbelieving that Starfleet is a lot more powerful than they gave it credit for.
OR they think the Federation did it, and thus will be even more inclined NOT to piss them off misbelieving that Starfleet is a lot more powerful than they gave it credit for.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
- Poll
