Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x04 - "An Obol for Charon"

[Ar-Pharazon]

For me, much of the poignance of the scene came only in retrospect. As I was first watching the episode, I was far too tense and worried for Tilly to truly appreciate not only how appropriate that song was to the situation but how the entire sequence spoke volumes about the depth of her and Paul's relationship. I admit I don't know Bowie as much as I should but I agree that he'd definitely be among those who withstand the test of time and the more I think about it, the more sense it makes for Tilly finding his music close to her heart.

It got me the first time, but definitely more the second time. I suppose I'm hoping it was the original version she was fond of

I wonder if this bit, plus Reno's reference to Prince was scripted, or if they let them adlib. I could see it with Tig, her smart-ass-ness is front and center. Glad they kept her on board.

 

[lawman]

In my experience, continuity wonks are big fans of tortuous rationalization..

Damn straight. And proud of it!

(I mean, all else equal, I still prefer non-tortuous rationalizations, but when a show has painted itself into a corner as much as DSC has, the tortuous ones are pretty much all that's left. Beats leaving obvious contradictions completely unexplained!)

For instance...

I like the theory posted online that the holographic communicators are just huge security risks waiting to happen. Basically, that the viewscreens have always been unable to look at what's on the aft-facing consoles in other shows, which could contain vital information, but some of the holographic communicators have been shown to observe their surroundings quite fully. Tilly's desk, for example.

It also goes with the low-tech theory that 2260s occurs after some massive computer hacking was done upon Starfleet.

That's pretty good! I like that explanation too. And it's not at all incompatible with the "Pike's influence" theory... in fact, the two could bolster one another.

 

[Alan Roi]

Damn straight. And proud of it!

(I mean, all else equal, I still prefer non-tortuous rationalizations, but when a show has painted itself into a corner as much as DSC has, the tortuous ones are pretty much all that's left. Beats leaving obvious contradictions completely unexplained!)

For instance...


That's pretty good! I like that explanation too. And it's not at all incompatible with the "Pike's influence" theory... in fact, the two could bolster one another.

Or you just let it go and understand its 2019 now and the future doesn't look like it did in 1966.

As I pointed out, that implies even though there were lost of higher tech that could have allowed Pike to communicate like an uninjured person, he demanded the yes/no beep chair because "In my grandmothers day when people were injured like this they put them in chairs like this that could only beep yes or no and they loved it!"

 

[Lord Garth]

Pacing really should be dependent on the story, not a blanket over the entire series, though.

I expect these are mostly from TNG era fans, where they packed a whole 30 minutes of story into 45. That old pacing meant they could do 15 minutes of other stuff during their viewing with no issue. But, when you're packing 60 minute worth of stuf into 45, that does create problems for such sensibilities and suddenly requires a bit of brain readaptation. .

I didn't say this earlier, but please make yourself at home around here.

 

[Uhura's Song]

Even a few lines of dialogue would have helped; maybe if Saru said something like, "After all we have been through, you are still the only person I could ask to do this." But it felt like they skipped the thawing of the ice completely, and that didn't feel very honest or true to the characters.

While I understand the critique that tge Saru/Burnham relationship hadn't been built up to Worf/Riker levels or family levels yet, we have had the thaw.

Didn't that happen when Byrnham gave Saru Geirgiou's telescope? And then proceeded from there?

 

[Alan Roi]

I didn't say this earlier, but please make yourself at home around here.

Thanks,. Will do.

 

[Alan Roi]

While I understand the critique that tge Saru/Burnham relationship hadn't been built up to Worf/Riker levels or family levels yet, we have had the thaw.

Didn't that happen when Byrnham gave Saru Geirgiou's telescope? And then proceeded from there?

Yes.

 

[Cyrus]

Regarding Spock killing people, obviously he didn't do it. The characters that know him (Pike, Number One) don't believe it and neither should we. This has fingerprints of section 31 all over it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Spock kills for good reasons.

There was probably a good reason.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Say...what if Saru now develops love ganglia to replace those of fear?

Spock gets a free pass in that case because of the pon farr.

Seeing those in consecutive posts....

 

[Turtletrekker]

Say...what if Saru now develops love ganglia to replace those of fear?

"Love Ganglia" is the name of my new band.

 

[zenophite]

While I understand the critique that tge Saru/Burnham relationship hadn't been built up to Worf/Riker levels or family levels yet, we have had the thaw.

Didn't that happen when Byrnham gave Saru Geirgiou's telescope? And then proceeded from there?

I know I keep harping on the same thing but.....either by writing or SMG's performance or elements of both I'm just having a hard time buying into Burnham's relationship with everybody.

When she started crying over Saru I asked why is she so moved right now? I had to remind myself that they had supposedly bonded over the course of season 1...In the same scene she says something like "Is It Truly Inevitable?" or whatever and the line came out so awkwardly it just felt like first year drama class or something.
She's supposed to be the closest thing to a best friend Tilly has on the ship and yet the chemistry just isn't there - contrast this with Tilly's dynamic with Stamets which is great.

I just think they really made a mistake with the Burnham casting choice. I heard they had considered Rosario Dawson...I can only imagine how much better this show would've been with her.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So, I have to say congratulations to Korben Dallas and Leeloo Dallas Multipass for destroying the giant ball of fire once again, even though this was a nice one.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If Saru is turning into a Ba'al, then me may need medication to arrest or suppress that transformation.

Virtual fear Ganglia.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Spock kills for good reasons.

There was probably a good reason.

The doctors might be Section 31 (or other bad guys. Logic Extremists? Red Angel cultists?) sent to kill him, and he responded in kind. And promptly bolted to solve the mystery of the season.

It's very possible at this point for Spock to have actually killed the doctors, without being possessed or crazy.

As I pointed out, that implies even though there were lots of higher tech that could have allowed Pike to communicate like an uninjured person, he demanded the yes/no beep chair because "In my grandmothers day when people were injured like this they put them in chairs like this that could only beep yes or no and they loved it!"

I don't see where this follows. The Delta Rays completely immobilized Pike, to the point that they had to read his brainwave patterns just to get a Yes/No (and probably had to teach him how to trigger the beeps with his mind).

That big honking wheelchair probably controlled all his organs below the neck, circulating blood from an artificial heart, oxygenating his artificial lungs since he seemed incapable of breathing (actor mishaps notwithstanding). He could see and hear, but maybe those senses were controlled by the chair and sent directly to his brain, the only unparalyzed portion of Pike left. I mean, I guess his eyes moved, but maybe those were ocular implants controlled remotely by the chair's AI.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"Love Ganglia" is the name of my new band.

Your early stuff was better.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If Saru is turning into a Ba'al

I think you mean these guys:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ba'ul

 

[Alan Roi]

The doctors might be Section 31 (or other bad guys. Logic Extremists? Red Angel cultists?) sent to kill him, and he responded in kind. And promptly bolted to solve the mystery of the season.

It's very possible at this point for Spock to have actually killed the doctors, without being possessed or crazy.



I don't see where this follows. The Delta Rays completely immobilized Pike, to the point that they had to read his brainwave patterns just to get a Yes/No (and probably had to teach him how to trigger the beeps with his mind).

That big honking wheelchair probably controlled all his organs below the neck, circulating blood from an artificial heart, oxygenating his artificial lungs since he seemed incapable of breathing (actor mishaps notwithstanding). He could see and hear, but maybe those senses were controlled by the chair and sent directly to his brain, the only unparalyzed portion of Pike left. I mean, I guess his eyes moved, but maybe those were ocular implants controlled remotely by the chair's AI.

Thing is, we already have more advanced tech now that translates brain signals and eye movements into speech. His chair was scifi for 1966, but its communication setup is already in a prototype stage right now and will probably be commonplace in a few years.

 

[Alan Roi]

So, I have to say congratulations to Korben Dallas and Leeloo Dallas Multipass for destroying the giant ball of fire once again, even though this was a nice one.

Goodness Gracious, You can never be too careful with great balls of fire.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Goodness Gracious, You can never be too careful with great balls of fire.

They'll break your will, but what a thrill...