Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x04 - "An Obol for Charon"

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A truly awful episode with abysmal writing and with the most contrived "explanation" why we don't see holographic communication later: A lowly Federation captain dislikes them. :D

Pike is one of the most decorated Captains in the fleet. Possibly the most decorated Captain if April and Decker are already promoted. The Enterprise has been considered since Season 1 as a very prestigious ship.

Now, holograms installed on the Enterprise seems to be exacerbating issues with their systems. The most decorated captain on the most prestigious starship makes a decision for the safety of his crew, and it's likely that other Constitution class starships would follow.
 
You can come up with compelling characters and then find out where to put them on the bridge. It doesn't have to be the other way around. DSC does have some good characters, I think Saru, Tilly and Stamets are strong characters, but their skillsets overlap to a frustrating degree, while we are still dealing with utterly undeveloped blanks doing 75% of the other vital jobs on the ship. It's just poor planning.
This season they do seem to be making a point of giving Detmer and Owo more to do, and we've even gotten a few bits of backstory for them now. If their characters continue in their current direction I wouldn't be surprised if they end up as big a part of the cast as Burnham, Stamets, Saru and Tilly.
 
Sort for being late to the fray but these threads get so long so fast.
Just a couple minor things.
Tilly and Stamus singing was awesome and I felt like the song was something children sang in the future or a lullaby which was why they both knew it. I totally buy that they listen to old music though because my 16 year old will plug in his aux and occasionally abba and John Denver will float by.

Also, minor irritation, I hate their shoes!!! lol.

loved the episode over all though. Loved learning more about Saru. Him being a refugee is so poignant in today's world. Don't remember the last time I was this curious to see more of an aliens world.
 
You make a compelling argument, I'll grant you, but the problem is "Discovery" is still fundamentally a show on a ship, about a ship. It's right there in the name!

So when we're naturally spending a ton of time on the bridge, it's frustrating that over half of the familiar faces doing the important jobs ON that bridge are little more than glorified extras.

Like I said, there's no reason Stamets couldn't also be the chief engineer. I think he's a great character and giving him that job would have just given him more significance in terms of plot as the show moves forward and (presumably, eventually) beyond the spore drive storyline.

Yes, Voyager and Enterprise didn't use their casts very well because they many bland or uninteresting characters. Kim, Chakotay, Mayweather....these are arguably the most dull, least dynamic characters in Trek history.

And TNG did have that problem, too, with the Conn-of-the-week officer, who often times was literally an extra who never got to speak. That wasn't by design, of course, but it was a running change when that show realized they also should probably have a chief engineer instead of a series of one-off co-stars filling the role and after Wil Wheaton left the show.

Now Discovery has that problem times four or five. It's weird that Saru, Burnham and Tilly keep switching off at the science station. A little more thought could have found ways to avoid that problem and give them more specific strengths.

You can come up with compelling characters and then find out where to put them on the bridge. It doesn't have to be the other way around. DSC does have some good characters, I think Saru, Tilly and Stamets are strong characters, but their skillsets overlap to a frustrating degree, while we are still dealing with utterly undeveloped blanks doing 75% of the other vital jobs on the ship. It's just poor planning.
I think the difference is that what you are seeing as a problem, I see as a positive - I liked the fact that TNG didn't replace Wesley, and just had either extras or a Detmer like minor character in Ensign Ro fill that seat. If there's no story reason for that position to be a main character, then I'm very happy with it not being one. They are there to fill the seat and say "yes sir" and "now showing all stop". That's fine. What Discovery improves on is that it is usually the same people too, so they at least become familiar. Outside of Trek, most shows have such a supporting cast of background players who fulfill this sort of role - SG-1 and BSG are two examples which come to mind. Familiar faces that were in some cases there for almost the whole run of the show, but aren't ever going to do much more than deliver a few lines. Heck, TOS basically did this too, it's just over fifty years we've all become so familiar with the supporting cast we tend to remember their parts as larger than they were. It was TNG that set us down the road of every significant crew position being a regular.
Discovery's approach helps keep the ship seeming real, but without unnecessary main characters to service clogging up the narrative. Or explaining why the doctor and chief engineer keep coming to the bridge for no real reason.
 
I am honestly puzzled by the number of people who find any episode of DSC “too fast-paced” (not singling anyone out, just prompted by the immediately preceding post).

To be fair, I appreciate a variety of pacing in films and TV programmes (I find as much fascination and entertainment in Lawrence of Arabia as I do in the last few Mission Impossible movies—for very different reasons, of course), but nothing in Trek has ever been “too fast-paced” for me to appreciate.

Not intended as a criticism, just an observation and an honest puzzlement on my part.

I don't think it's fast paced as much as it is a frantic pace, where too much is going on to follow at times. Last season, Discovery either moved at a glacial pace or a frantic one. It feels like they're trying to get the balance between the two. They're not quite there yet.
 
No, they did not have forcefields like we've seen in Discovery in TOS (imagine if they could contain intruders as they did the spore blob thing!). The earliest they appeared was Generations, and they were used in many TNG and Voyager episodes.

TOS forcefields had large visible emitters around brig doors.
That's the best you can come up with? 2.0. Show more effort.
 
I found the premier this season to be weirdly paced. It was either frantic or dead slow. Haven't found that in the last two episodes
 
No, they did not have forcefields like we've seen in Discovery in TOS (imagine if they could contain intruders as they did the spore blob thing!). The earliest they appeared was Generations, and they were used in many TNG and Voyager episodes.

TOS forcefields had large visible emitters around brig doors.

they were new then - then was more than 50 years ago, they have to keep up with the competition, don't they

a nerdy 'canon is king' show would be cancelled after screen testing
 
With apologies for any redundancy, as I've only read about half the thread...
Worst moment of the episode when they brought [the holo-comms] up. It's franchise management, not storytelling. I'd rather they just say "this is what TOS looks like now, deal with it."
The creative PTB are managing a franchise, so it's inevitable that the stories involve a little "franchise management," as you put it. IMHO doing it as you suggest would be pretty much the least tolerable, most objectionable approach to that. It would emphasize that the whole thing is just an arbitrary fictional construct, rather than eliding that.

In-story explanations are a good thing! They keep fans engaged rather than alienated. Case in point:

Well, I think they had to come up with some explanation on why we never seem 'em in TOS, etc. It may not be the best of explanations, but I can live with it.
Doesn’t explain why all other TOS ships don’t have them, or future ships as well.
Standardization of all Starfleet communications technology with that of the Enterprise, and once she became the most famous and celebrated starship in the Federation other vessels mimicked her systems?

Then, of course, there's this interpretation. (in brief: once Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain, he spread his old-school tech preferences across not just the Enterprise but most of the fleet.) Works for me. At least as well as anything else could, at this point...
 
TrekYards doesn't think the emotional moments between Saru and Burnham were earned, because they don't think they really reconciled enough after all their bickering in Season 1.

They do think the scenes were well acted and nice though.

Clearly they don't remember the scene where Burnham gave him the telescope or the ep when his fear got removed temporarily.
 
I don't think it's fast paced as much as it is a frantic pace, where too much is going on to follow at times. Last season, Discovery either moved at a glacial pace or a frantic one. It feels like they're trying to get the balance between the two. They're not quite there yet.

Pacing really should be dependent on the story, not a blanket over the entire series, though.
 
Then, of course, there's this interpretation. (in brief: once Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain, he spread his old-school tech preferences across not just the Enterprise but most of the fleet.) Works for me. At least as well as anything else could, at this point...

So you think it was Pike's idea that he be put in a chair where he could only respond in yes/no beeps, when there was plenty of tech around which could allow him to properly communicate?
 
IMHO doing it as you suggest would be pretty much the least tolerable, most objectionable approach to that. It would emphasize that the whole thing is just an arbitrary fictional construct, rather than eliding that.

In-story explanations are a good thing! They keep fans engaged rather than alienated.

A) It IS “just an arbitrary fictional construct” (not that there’s anything wrong with that). ;)

B) This fan doesn’t find such explanations “engaging”, at all. Took me right out of the moment.

I. Hate. Being. Spoon. Fed. Every. Little. Detail. (Especially of this kind).
 
Is this not the same guy who will attempt (and believe he succeeded) to murder his best friend and superior officer?

Does anybody seriously think that Spock actually killed anybody? I mean, did Scotty actually kill that belly dancer on Argelius? Did Sarek actually kill the Tellarite ambassador? Did Kirk really assassinate Gorkon?

Heroes falsely being suspected of murder is a plot device as old as THE FUGITIVE at least.
 
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