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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x02 - "New Eden"

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In Ep one, Stamets is wearing a VR holo device and rewatching some old footage of Hugh talking to him about Kasselian opera. Presumably a letter sent to him when they weren't serving on the same ship. Tilly walks in and interrupts him and they discus how he may have seen Hugh in the mycelial network. (I think, unless that part was ep 2) He tells her he's transferring off the ship because everywhere he looks he sees him.
 
Yeah - my 11 year old self liked Holly from LotL; but I was hot for:
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Maggie Cooper and Pamelyn Ferdin:drool: (the two girls pictured above) from:
Space Academy myself at that age: https://nostalgiacentral.com/television/tv-by-decade/tv-shows-1970s/space-academy/
:rommie::angel:;)
...And with Jonathan "Dr. Zachary Smith" Harris! I remember it well.


The first time I noticed being attracted to a woman:

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Ah...Peri. The best thing about Colin Baker's Doctor.

But nothing beats the Fifth Doctor and Tegan.
 
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I don't do numerical ratings, but suffice it to say that was a home run for me, folks.

I like that they are emphasizing Pike as someone whom we can quite vividly picture allowing himself to be cooked alive by delta rays in order to pull cadets to safety. Besides playing upon our foreknowledge of how he eventually ends his career (or foreshadowing it, for those who aren't so familiar), it also makes for a nice contrast with Lorca. (And I say that despite Lorca having been among my favorite characters in S1.) Season Two definitely has a different groove than Season One (which I loved), and while I was a bit jarred by the opener, this one really carried me along. I'm enjoying the balance of episodic storytelling within the serialized format, and agree it feels very "Star Treky" as others put it. (Not that I ever agreed the first season didn't.)

I also like that with little touches such as the fortune cookie last episode and the way Pike speaks to Jacob about "knowing what it's like to live with doubt" in this one, they seem to be making subtle allusion to his Talosian experience. I expect he's the sort of person who, when he hits the mattress at night, or when his mind is wandering, might still wonder if he never actually got out of that cage, and has been living an illusion ever since.

As others, I too find myself thinking about the Preservers from "The Paradise Syndrome" (TOS). Whether it was intended to be of significance or not, it's worth noting that Burnham caught a glimpse of one of their obelisks when Mirror-Lorca revealed to her the spore drive for the first time in "Context Is For Kings" (DSC):

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Cute how in both name and nature Terralysium is reminiscent of Terra Nova from its titular ENT episode, Terratin from "The Terratin Incident" (TAS), Elysia from "The Time Trap" (TAS), etc.

They could have at least saved Jacob, who was the sanest of the bunch, who instead is now doomed to live with the knowledge he has amidst this religious weirdos.
They should have taken Jacob with them.
I found the subversion of that expectation an effective beat, myself. It's entirely possible they might well have granted him such a request (like Saru), if he'd wanted that. But Jacob himself said he was satisfied with having been granted the answer to a question his forebears had long pondered. He seemed content to stay, and his deactivation of the distress beacon and subsequent use of the power cell to re-illuminate the church, brighter than ever before, all seemed symbolic of his choosing not to reject his society's ways and beliefs, even having had his perspective on them altered. He didn't feel a need to be "rescued" from them, despite having momentarily given in to temptation at the prospect of seeing Earth for himself.

Weirdly, at first, I wasn't very comfortable with Michael coming close to outright calling the New Eden residents' beliefs irrational (maybe I was just afraid of how they'd react), but then I felt more perturbed that Pike was so determined to preserve their ignorance, even going so far as to basically gaslight poor Jacob. I did ultimately like the episode, though; the colony of transplants from Earth and Prime Directive quandary felt very "Star Treky"; I just came close to having a more negative opinion of the story until the scene were Pike let Jacob know that he wasn't crazy.
I loved that it took you on that ride, questioning whether they were really doing the right thing at each step, like so many great Prime Directive quandary episodes of series past. In contrast to some, I've always loved those kinds of stories. This episode upheld a proud Trek tradition well.

If I had any minor quibbles it would be this: Pike was so steadfast about obeying General Order 1. Obey. Obey. Obey. At all costs. I won't even get into the fact that I think the Prime Directive is one of the most self-righteous rules in the history of up-your-own-ass-ness. The fact that he then went and broke it for......what exactly? First of all, didn't they all see a 23rd century phaser go off? Ok, forget that. Didn't they see three people beam away in a flash of light? Even in a semi-religious community, most people are going to be like "hold on, God doesn't do that". Ok, putting ALL that aside then...

Couldn't they have just stolen the helmet they needed, extracted the footage, and put it back without revealing who they were?

Pike broke GO1 because he wanted to. Let's just be honest.
Perhaps not God himself, but Angels clearly do, in these people's experience. Burnham told them they were going to the church to pray for deliverance, so naturally everyone but Jacob believed they received it. In "Who Watches The Watchers" (TNG), Picard abhorred the idea of reinforcing the Mintakans' false beliefs of him, firmly rejecting it in favor of a different sort of corrective interference despite the anthropologist's advice to do exactly that...

RIKER: Masquerading as a god?
PICARD: Absolutely out of the question. The Prime Directive...
BARRON: Has already been violated. The damage is done. All we can do now is minimize it.
PICARD: By sanctioning their false beliefs?
BARRON: By giving them guidelines. Letting them know what the Overseer expects of them.
PICARD: Doctor Barron, I cannot, I will not, impose a set of commandments on these people. To do so violates the very essence of the Prime Directive.
BARRON: Like it or not, we have rekindled the Mintakans' belief in the Overseer.
RIKER: And are you saying that this belief will eventually become a religion?
BARRON: It's inevitable. And without guidance, that religion could degenerate into inquisitions, holy wars, chaos.
PICARD: Horrifying... Doctor Barron, your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago, they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the Dark Ages of superstition and ignorance and fear? No! We will find some way to undo the damage we've caused. Number One, tell me about this group's leader.
RIKER: Nuria. Exceptionally clear-minded, sensible. The Mintakans trust her judgment. If we can convince her that you are not a god...
PICARD: She might be able to persuade the others.
BARRON: And how do you propose to convince her?
PICARD: She believes the Picard is a magical figure. I'm going to show her how the magic works. I'm going to bring her aboard.

Yet, that too was his own personal inclination, and prerogative as captain. Also, it should be noted that here, the initial beliefs of the New Edenites were neither wholly demonstrably false (they were in fact delivered from doom by beings who might as well have been gods, even by Federation standards, for all that was known about them), nor had they already been discarded in the course of natural development by the point Our Heroes™ arrived.

They could have given them a choice. They didn’t have to leave if they didn’t want to.
Plus, isn’t diverting that meteor also breaking the rule? By that logic they should have let them all die.
Not a bad episode. Interesting having a new take on the prime directive. Apparently since they came from Earth a few years before first contact then they are still considered pre-warp and subject to the prime directive.

But it's inconsistent with TNG "The Masterpiece Society": "RIKER: The Prime Directive doesn't apply. They're human. " and voyager episode "The 37's"
But the cited exchange from "The Masterpiece Society" (which for the record was not dealing with a colony of pre-warp humans anyway) goes on from there...

PICARD: Doesn't it? Our very presence may have damaged, even destroyed, their way of life. Now, whether or not we agree with that way of life, whether they're human or not, is irrelevant, Number One. We are responsible.
RIKER: We had to respond to the threat from the core fragment didn't we?
PICARD: Of course we did. But in the end we may have proved just as dangerous to that colony as any core fragment could ever have been.

As with so many Prime Directive conundrums, the very point of the scenario is to illustrate that it's not so simple, and very much open to interpretation. Pike, Kirk, Picard, Riker, Sisko, and Janeway would each see a given set of circumstances in their own way, and make decisions accordingly, each influenced by their own morals and prior experiences, and chosen counsels kept. DSC is keeping with that. As Burnham says, it's "a choice only a captain can make." (Great stuff in this one between Burnham and Pike!) And upon that captain, let the consequences fall...

"The Return Of The Archons" (TOS):

KIRK: Landru must die.
SPOCK: Captain, our Prime Directive of non-interference...
KIRK: That refers to a living, growing culture. Do you think this one is?

"Too Short A Season" (TNG):

JAMESON: It wasn't my golden oratory that saved them, Captain. I gave Karnas the weapons he wanted.
PICARD: You did what?
JAMESON: I gave exactly the same weapons to his rivals. My interpretation of the Prime Directive, let them solve their problems with those arms on an equal basis.
PICARD: And that decision plunged them into forty years of civil war.

"The Drumhead" (TNG):

SATIE: Captain, do you believe in the Prime Directive?
PICARD: Of course.
SATIE: In fact, it's Starfleet's General Order Number One, is it not?
PICARD: Your point, Admiral?
SATIE: Would it surprise you to learn that you have violated the Prime Directive a total of nine times since you took command of the Enterprise? I must say, Captain, it surprised the hell out of me.
PICARD: My reports to Starfleet will document the circumstances of those instances.
SATIE: Yes, we're looking into those reports, Captain, very closely into those reports, after which I'm sure we'll have more questions for you about your so-called commitment to Starfleet Prime Directive.

"Battle Lines" (DS9):

SISKO: I told them we'd transport them off this moon.
BASHIR: Isn't that a bit like assisting a jailbreak?
SISKO: I don't need you to interpret the Prime Directive for me, Doctor.

"Caretaker" (VGR):

TUVOK: Captain, any action we take to protect the Ocampa would affect the balance of power in this system. The Prime Directive would seem to apply.
JANEWAY: Would it? We never asked to be involved, Tuvok. But we are. We are.

"Prime Factors" (VGR):

JANEWAY: It's the first time we've been on the other side of the fence.
PARIS: What fence?
JANEWAY: The one that's made of binding principles. We have our own set of rules, which includes the Prime Directive. How many times have we been in the position of refusing to interfere when some kind of disaster threatened an alien culture? It's all very well to say we do it on the basis of an enlightened principle, but how does that feel to the aliens? I'm sure many of them think the Prime Directive is a lousy idea.
PARIS: Even we think so sometimes.
CHAKOTAY: I know of many times when Starfleet personnel have decided on strong ethical grounds to ignore it.
KIM: Still, there's a reason why it's Starfleet's General Order Number One. On the whole, it does a lot more good than harm.

Insurrection:

PICARD: How can there be an order to abandon the Prime Directive?
DOUGHERTY: The Prime Directive doesn't apply. These people are not indigenous to this planet. They were never meant to be immortal. We'll simply be restoring them to their natural evolution.
PICARD: Who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?

"Counterpoint" (VGR):

JANEWAY: I'm still counting on getting this ship home.
KASHYK: Are you sure you'll be welcome when you do? I came across something else in your database, the Prime Directive.
JANEWAY: The Federation's cardinal protocol.
KASHYK: It seems you violated it when you rescued these telepaths.
JANEWAY: Well, let's just say I usually go with my instincts and sort it out later at the Board of Inquiry. Those admirals and I were on a first name basis, you know.

In "The 37's" (VGR), they were ultimately dealing with a society already aware they had been brought there by an advanced alien race, and already with some knowledge of their ships and technology. Apart from Earhart and the other sleepers they encountered first, that is, and Janeway wrestled with waking them from the get-go, openly admitting she was swayed in favor of it by the possibility that Voyager might be able to use whatever means had brought them there to get home, much as the helmet cam footage here provided an added incentive. Just as captains before and after him would, Pike exercises his own discretion in navigating the situation, based on the individual circumstances of the mission at hand, as they develop. Again, that is the purview and responsibility of a starship captain.

And don't forget the distress beacon. Even in all his cautions and misgivings, Picard would not refuse a call for help in "Pen Pals" (TNG):

WORF: There are no options. The Prime Directive is not a matter of degrees. It is an absolute.
PULASKI: I have a problem with that kind of rigidity. It seems callous, and even a little cowardly.
PICARD: Doctor, I'm sure that is not what the Lieutenant meant, but in a situation like this, we have to be cautious. What we do today may profoundly affect the future. If we could see every possible outcome...
RIKER: We'd be gods, which we're not. If there is a cosmic plan, is it not the height of hubris to think that we can or should interfere?
LaFORGE: So what are you saying? That the Dremans are fated to die?
RIKER: I think that's an option that we should be considering.
LaFORGE: Consider it considered and rejected.
TROI: If there is a cosmic plan, are we not a part of it? Our presence at this place, at this moment in time, could be a part of that fate.
LaFORGE: Right, and it could be part of that plan that we interfere.
RIKER: Well, that eliminates the possibility of fate!
DATA: But Commander, the Dremans are not a subject for philosophical debate. They are a people.
PICARD: So, we make an exception in the deaths of millions?
PULASKI: Yes.
PICARD: And is it the same situation if it's an epidemic, and not a geological calamity?
PULASKI: Absolutely.
PICARD: What about a war? If generations of conflict is killing millions, do we interfere?
[Everyone looks uncertain]
PICARD: Ah, well, now we're all a little less secure in our moral certitude. And what if it's not just killings? If an oppressive government is enslaving millions? You see, the Prime Directive has many different functions, not the least of which is to protect us, to prevent us from allowing our emotions to overwhelm our judgment.
PULASKI: My emotions are involved! Data's friend is going to die! That means something!
WORF: To Data.
PULASKI: Does that invalidate the emotion?
[Everyone looks uncertain again]
LaFORGE: What if the Dremans asked for our help?
DATA: Yes. Sarjenka's transmission could be viewed as a call for help.
PICARD: [shaking his head] Sophistry.
PULASKI: I'll buy that excuse. We're all jigging madly on the head of a pin, anyway.
WORF: She cannot ask for help from someone she does not know.
DATA: She knows me.
RIKER: What a perfectly vicious little circle.
DATA: We are going to allow her to die, are we not?
PICARD: Data, I want you to sever the contact with Drema IV.
[Data moves to a control panel and begins tapping in commands]
COMPUTER: Isolating frequency...
SARJENKA: [over comm] Data! Data, where are you? Why won't you answer? Are you angry with me? Please, please, I'm so afraid! Data! Data, where are you?
[Data prepares to sever the contact]
PICARD: Wait... Data, your whisper from the dark has now become a plea... We cannot turn our backs.

In short, Worf is wrong. The Prime Directive is never an absolute. It's exactly what it purports to be, a directive, a guiding principle. Its specific application is always a matter of interpretation and finesse. Whatever of it is written in black and white—and as of the 24th century, this includes no fewer than 47 sub-orders per "Infinite Regress" (VGR)—there's inevitably a lot of grey area left between the lines. And Starfleet well understands that, which is why they give their starship captains the leeway to make such calls based on the totality of factors and facets in a given scenario.

Pilot license at 12, for a starship?
Might have been a hovercraft
Maybe for a Cesna, Beechcraft, or other craft that is a 23rd-century analog to those.
She probably got a shuttle licence early.
T-16 Skyhopper for the win! All your womp rats are belong to Detmer.

Detmer's clearly got moves (even if this one made it look as if Discovery had a dingleberry)! I am overjoyed to see both her and Owosekun beginning to get some further development as actual characters. With Detmer having been afforded only the scantest hints around the edges in S1, and Owo denied any at all, it was overdue. (And still is in the case of Ariam, so I hope they get around to developing her soon, too. I wonder if the recast has anything to do with that? Who knows, perhaps there will even turn out to be some link between Ariam and Nilsson?) I'd love to see all three of these ladies (and Doctor Pollard makes four—is she the CMO, I wonder, or merely Culber's replacement on call?) as featured characters within the ensemble as the show goes on.

*Family ties override privacy regulations as far as I'm concerned, so Sarek, Amanda, and Michael should have been told about Spock being checked into a Psych Ward regardless of what he wanted
If you prearranged some time off work to check yourself into a hospital for psychiatric treatment, of your own free will, for your own personal reasons, you think they should be able to notify family members you haven't had contact with for years without your consent? And not only without affirmative consent, but over your expressed objections? Sounds like a major breach of trust between doctor and patient, to me, man.

-MMoM:D
 
Apparently I've always confused the Trek universe's World War III with the Eugenics Wars for some reason.
Some people have tried to retcon the Eugenics Wars as being part of World War III or the actual war itself because of Spock's lines in TOS that the Eugenics Wars were "your last so-called World War," but TNG and ENT confirmed that the two conflicts were separate armed confrontations decades apart.
Since Spock's line came first, TNG and ENT are the retcons. No one prior to Encounter at Farpoint could have watched Space Seed and thought World War III happened in the mid-21st Century. The plain meaning of the dialogue was that the Eugenics Wars were WWIII or possibly IV.
According to a graphic seen in the Enterprise mirror universe episodes, WW III (2026 - 2053) came about as a result over the '"issue of genetic manipulation and human genome enhancement." As for Colonel Green, he was the leader of a faction of ultra-violent ecoterrorists whose actions resulted in the death of 37 million people.
So in the Mirror universe it looks like they were combined.
No, that was an info screen from the Prime Defiant.



I don’t think that one made it into the final episode, so it isn’t canon.
That part did make it onscreen in the final episode, alongside several other historical datapoints.
It did indeed, although it's barely legible even in HD, and contains an odd goof or two thanks to being based off someone's first edition of the Okudas' Chronology, such as noting the degeneration of relations with Klingons in 2223 as "giving rise to some 70 years of unremitting hostility" (the date still works, and nicely coincides with the "terror raids" of Michael's youth...it's the fact that this is stated in the database of a ship from circa 2268 that's goofy), which would make it difficult to call it hard canon:

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Nevertheless, it's worth noting that despite this obviously being the initial basis, a number of points are intentionally modified from the book's text, such as specifying that it was an Earth/Andorian/Vulcan/Tellarite alliance (seen forged for the first time earlier that season in the "Babel One" trilogy) at whose hands the Romulans suffered their humiliating defeat at Cheron rather than merely Earth forces. And there are also new additions, such as the the entry about Archer's Enterprise being launched in 2151.

The bit about WWIII beginning in 2026 "over the issue of genetic manipulation and human genome enhancement" and the specifics about Green (including his first name) are among of those new additions. (Green of course would have a minor role in the penultimate two-parter of the same season, and his Memory Alpha article indicates they had a lot more planned for his character originally.) The beauty of this detail being included is, it might serve both to explain Spock's confusion/conflation of the Eugenics Wars with WWIII in "Space Seed" (TOS), and if further taken in conjunction with the 22nd-century events involving Soong's Augments (with both "Up The Long Ladder" and "The Masterpiece Society" [TNG] showing that other groups were practicing cloning and genetic engineering in that period as well) might even form a basis for Admiral Bennett to view the former as having continued up until as recently as two centuries earlier from the standpoint of "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" (DS9)!

And while listing 2061 as the year of Zefram Cochrane's "first successful demonstration of light-speed propulsion" might seem like a goof at first blush, it probably isn't actually. If they were working off the original Chronology, the person who made it is just as likely to have been familiar with Sternbach and Okuda's TNG Technical Manual, which speaks of 2061 as the year "Cochrane's team succeeded in producing a prototype field device of massive proportions...described as a fluctuation superimpeller" that "finally allowed an unmanned flight test vehicle to straddle the speed of light (c) 'wall,' alternating between two velocity states while remaining at neither for longer than Planck time...." Thus, the "demonstration" in question was always meant to be an event that preceded the first manned warp flight that was later established in FC as having happened in 2063. It does rather make sense to think that Cochrane would have proof-of-concepted and tested his engine design in some form before strapping it to his back, after all.

Such as Archer living to the age of 133 and dying the day after attending the launch ceremonies for the Enterprise 1701.
That part didn't make it into the episode, along with Hoshi being among Kodos' victims at Tarsus IV. What did make it in is that he eventually served as Starfleet Chief of Staff, Ambassador to Andoria, Federation Councilman, and UFP President, among other goodies like confirming the planet from "Strange New World" (ENT) ended up being named Archer IV, and thus retroactively inserting an ENT reference into "Yesterday's Enterprise" (TNG)!

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Though not intentional at the time, you could now interpret the dialogue in "Space Seed" as McCoy correcting Spock, and the latter stands corrected with "of course".

SPOCK: Records of that period are fragmentary, however. The mid=1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.
MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars.
SPOCK: Of course. Your attempt to improve the race through selective breeding.

But I understand there are fans that aren't too crazy about the idea of Spock being incorrect about facts from time to time. He's half-human after all. The only thing that would be a bit off about that bit of dialogue is that Bones would RELISH correcting Spock on a factoid such as getting Eugenics War and WWIII mixed up!
On such a grim subject, McCoy wouldn't feel inclined to poke fun. Instead, he gets his human hackles up, and his digs in: "Whoa now, wait a minute. Not our attempt, Mister Spock, a group of ambitious scientists'. I'm sure you know the type? Devoted to logic, completely unemotional..."

Always had a soft spot for this little fan fix, myself, even if it goes against "original intent"—which in this case happens to already have been contradicted by later (and current) intent, anyway.

The Omega Glory:

SPOCK: Kohms? Communists? The parallel is almost too close, Captain. It would mean they fought the war your Earth avoided, and in this case, the Asiatics won and took over this planet.

"The War Earth avoided" was pretty clearly a nuclear holocaust.
Of course, in context, Spock might have simply meant that Earth's conflicts, despite resulting in "whole populations being bombed out of existence" per the "Space Seed" (TOS) exchange, clearly didn't result in the United States being reduced to a forgotten myth. Rather, it survived the the war as a political entity, and continued on until at least 2079, per "Desert Crossing" (ENT) and "The Royale" (TNG).

Tilly called it the Terran universe last season too. This is the second time it's been called that. It has never been called the "mirror universe" in canon.
That's correct. Like "Kelvin Timeline" it's an out-of-universe term, referring back to the title of "Mirror, Mirror" (TOS). On DS9, characters simply referred to it as the "alternate universe" or "other universe" in dialogue, which are of course rather generic (just as "alternate reality" is in ST'09). "Terran universe" is as good a term as any, within their frame of reference on DSC. I wonder if we ever will hear it called a "mirror universe" onscreen?

According to Ron Moore, "Gene felt very strongly that all of our contemporary Earth religions would be gone by the 23rd century." Moore does go on to say that they chose to avoid Earth religions on the series he worked on.
I could get my head wrapped around it if what Gene meant was that all these opposing, stovepipe Earth religions had taken a back seat to a more tolerant, universal approach to faith.

But to imply that humans are just "too smart" or "too evolved" to have any kind of faith is a bit offensive.
He may have grown more militant (ironic, given he also grew more adamant that "Starfleet is not a military organization") on the subject, but at the time of TMP, that was indeed more what he meant:

"After Bob [Wise] was signed, he and Gene [Roddenberry] discovered that their thinking tended to run along the same lines. Much of the discussion over the script's underlying meaning centered over the concepts of the Creator. Both men found that they had their own concepts of God which did not embrace any orthodox religions, with leanings toward Eastern philosophies. Both also shared an unorthodox view of humanity and the universe in relation to God. For example, when the idea of having a chaplain aboard the Enterprise was brought up, the producer-director team found themselves agreeing that the whole idea was distasteful to them. Gene's feelings were that in the 23rd century, not only would you have all the religions of Earth (if they were still around), but you might pick up a dozen or more new ones with every planet in the Federation too. If there were to be a chaplain reflecting each religion, there would be no room on the Enterprise for crew members. Gene believed, and Bob concurred, that the people in that century would be mature enough to handle their own religious needs without daily help from chaplains."

-Susan Sackett, The Making Of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, page 80
This is reflected in the film (although trimmed from the theatrical release) by Decker's line: "We all create God in our own image."

Wait. The second person in the TMP was supposed to be Kirk's partner?

I never knew that.
I think that was in the novelization. Moviewise she's just some Admiral.
The "admiral" part is from the novel as well. Moviewise, we couldn't ever clearly make out her uniform. Productionwise, the actress in question was costumed as an NCO:

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Someone needs to explain to me how it was funny. Because I did not laugh during his death and I keep seeing this assertion yet don't recognize it in the material at all.
I felt the joke was two-pronged. First, on an overt level, it was an obvious subversion of the classic trope (as popularly recognized, whether accurate to the original source material or not) where the smartass redshirt we've never met before is always the one who buys it. In this case, it was the smartass blueshirt we'd never met before who bought it instead. That's the punchline. The set up was having Pike tell Nhan to "get [her] red shirt into an EV suit" immediately before the excursion, leading us to think: "Uh oh, that doesn't bode well for her." Basically, a replay of the bit from ST'09 with gung-ho-to-kick-some-Romulan-ass Olson, but deliberately avoiding what might be the expected outcome to many. And on a subtextual level, he seemed to be an effigy of those "fans" who think they know better than the makers of the show, always talk shit about Burnham, don't want Spock to appear because it means recasting him again, etc.

(I certainly thought it played as funnier than Linus sneezing on him, which got a laugh from me in context of the trailer, but seemed to fall a little flat in the episode itself.)

-MMoM:D
 
In Ep one, Stamets is wearing a VR holo device and rewatching some old footage of Hugh talking to him about Kasselian opera. Presumably a letter sent to him when they weren't serving on the same ship. Tilly walks in and interrupts him and they discus how he may have seen Hugh in the mycelial network. (I think, unless that part was ep 2) He tells her he's transferring off the ship because everywhere he looks he sees him.

Thanks. I think I remember seeing that, but it seemed there were a few other memories I don’t remember (!) seeing

No problem thanks
 
I felt the joke was two-pronged. First, on an overt level, it was an obvious subversion of the classic trope (as popularly recognized, whether accurate to the original source material or not) where the smartass redshirt we've never met before is always the one who buys it. In this case, it was the smartass blueshirt we'd never met before who bought it instead. That's the punchline. The set up was having Pike tell Nhan to "get [her] red shirt into an EV suit" immediately before the excursion, leading us to think: "Uh oh, that doesn't bode well for her." Basically, a replay of the bit from ST'09 with gung-ho-to-kick-some-Romulan-ass Olson, but deliberately avoiding what might be the expected outcome to many. And on a subtextual level, he seemed to be an effigy of those "fans" who think they know better than the makers of the show, always talk shit about Burnham, don't want Spock to appear because it means recasting him again, etc.

(I certainly thought it played as funnier than Linus sneezing on him, which got a laugh from me in context of the trailer, but seemed to fall a little flat in the episode itself.)
Different strokes. I still completely appreciated Linus' sneeze and Burnham's interaction with him in the elevator.

Secondly, I don't see the subtext of digging at fans. I think this is the same type of eisegesis that states that we are to laugh at Connelly's misfortune. I liken it more to the death in Twister with Bill Paxton's rival being ended rather viciously. There is no humor there and I see none here. I certainly don't see the implication of schadenfreude or audience effigy that is being bandied about here.

Tl:dr I can see why people might find it funny via gallows humor. I do not see that as intentional and certainly not to the degree suggested here.
 
Saru was as good as any past Starfleet captain on this episode. They need to give him the extra stripe and the gold shirt next year.

Yes I second this!

I think it will happen. I think they are hinting that this will be direction, given how often Saru seems to be ending up in the big chair. The Captain waiting on Vulcan would most likely be reassigned by now, considering the nature of Discovery's mission. Saru will most likely be made Captain at Pike's recommendation.
 
Different strokes. I still completely appreciated Linus' sneeze and Burnham's interaction with him in the elevator.

Secondly, I don't see the subtext of digging at fans. I think this is the same type of eisegesis that states that we are to laugh at Connelly's misfortune. I liken it more to the death in Twister with Bill Paxton's rival being ended rather viciously. There is no humor there and I see none here. I certainly don't see the implication of schadenfreude or audience effigy that is being bandied about here.

Tl:dr I can see why people might find it funny via gallows humor. I do not see that as intentional and certainly not to the degree suggested here.
It was fairly simple slapstick 'pride comes before a fall' type humour where the asshole's ego ends up getting him his comeuppance in short order. There's nothing more sophisticated to it than that - a blowhard dying mid mansplain. If you find that sort of beat amusing, it's funny, if you don't, it isn't. It's difficult to pull off in a show that takes itself seriously and it's difficult to pull off with a 'good guy' instead of random enemy henchman. Personally, I think Discovery pulled it off, but clearly you and others would disagree.
 
OK, I made it through 53 pages of comments.

Plenty interesting comments covering everything all ready.

I loved it, a 9 for me.

I loved Lorca but Pike is a fine addition to the show.

I continue to love Tilly, I don't think she is too much.
 
The "admiral" part is from the novel as well. Moviewise, we couldn't ever clearly make out her uniform [...] :

Sonak-and-Non-Ciana-Officer-Star-Trek-Calendar-March-1980.jpg
That much I knew.

FWIW, my supposition had always been that one of the final crew replacements that Kirk was waiting on before launch covered the woman lost in the transporter accident, possibly even Ilia herself.

Productionwise, the actress in question was costumed as an NCO
That I did not know.
 
FWIW, my supposition had always been that one of the final crew replacements that Kirk was waiting on before launch covered the woman lost in the transporter accident, possibly even Ilia herself.
Yes, thanks for reminding me, I meant to mention that this was indeed the exact intent, per Robert Wise's commentary track on the Director's Edition DVD. She was supposed to be the navigator, with Ilia being her replacement. (So perhaps she was meant to be an officer after all, whatever her costume—although DiFalco, who in turn replaced Ilia later in the film, was a CPO—but obviously not an admiral.) The shooting script identifies her only as "a human woman."

-MMoM:D
 
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Tl:dr I can see why people might find it funny via gallows humor. I do not see that as intentional and certainly not to the degree suggested here.

Since this debate continues to linger, I thought I'd weigh in. I absolutely agree with those who believe it was quite intentional by the writers, as a funny scene, just as was the dinosaur/toilet scene that people have mentioned. This kind of joke is seen often in tv and movies. On the other hand, I agree with those who find it not funny at all, but horrifying, and it always takes me out of the story while I process that many, perhaps most, people watching with me are laughing, while I am appalled. This is such a straightforward difference I've noticed among people that it almost seems hard-wired, and along the lines of the blue/black or white/gold dress controversy: obviously it is funny vs. obviously it is not funny.
 
Since this debate continues to linger, I thought I'd weigh in. I absolutely agree with those who believe it was quite intentional by the writers, as a funny scene, just as was the dinosaur/toilet scene that people have mentioned. This kind of joke is seen often in tv and movies. On the other hand, I agree with those who find it not funny at all, but horrifying, and it always takes me out of the story while I process that many, perhaps most, people watching with me are laughing, while I am appalled. This is such a straightforward difference I've noticed among people that it almost seems hard-wired, and along the lines of the blue/black or white/gold dress controversy: obviously it is funny vs. obviously it is not funny.
OTOH, I have no idea how that scene was in any way or for appalling
 
I can only repeat: blue/black vs. white/gold. I think it's one of those differences in people's POV that we have to accept and move on. We can never change someone's mind on the subject by presenting our own reasoning and argument. I have always been and surely always will be appalled by sudden violent death onscreen even though I know it's meant to be funny. This isn't meant to criticize people who do find it funny. I realize it's a joke; it's not real. I'm not suggesting that those who do find it funny would be laughing as they pass by a roadside accident.
 
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