Klingon change for season 2?

[Yistaan]

I was just thinking: it's probably a coincidence and the writers didn't think about Chang at all, but this new "tradition" that Klingons shave during war in the 23rd century and have hair in peace actually ties nicely into the only bald Klingon we've seen before Discovery: General Chang.

Chang: Oh now, be honest, Captain. Warrior to warrior... You do prefer it this way, don't you? As it was meant to be. ...No peace in our time. 'Once more unto the breach, dear friends.'

In Star Trek 6, Chang is trying to create a scenario of constant warfare. Since this is his state of mind, it makes sense he'd always shave his head. I wonder why Gorkon never caught onto this.

In any case, I disagree with Mary Chieffo's assertion that the Klingon allowance of hair during war happened after Praxis. The Klingons were very much ready for war in Errand of Mercy and none of them were bald. Also, fans of games like Klingon Academy note the Klingons weren't bald there either.

I say it's better that Discovery explains why Klingons stopped this shaved head tradition (maybe they realized T'Kuvma was a fool as Cornwell put it) rather than put it off till after ST6.

 

[Longinus]

The production team changed and so did the design language. Good grief...it's like there is a desire to find reasons to hate CBS...

I don't think anyone is hating them for this, most people seem to think this is a good move. We just don't buy the idea that this is what they planned all along; they obviously didn't.

But yes, ultimately it doesn't matter why they decided to change the things back to more traditional look, it is a good direction nevertheless.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think anyone is hating them for this, most people seem to think this is a good move. We just don't buy the idea that this is what they planned all along; they obviously didn't.

But yes, ultimately it doesn't matter why they decided to change the things back to more traditional look, it is a good direction nevertheless.

No, it doesn't matter in the long run, largely because it was never stated that "This is the way Klingons look now." GR said something similar regarding TMP and TNG Klingons but that obviously changed as well.

I think it's a retcon, just like everything else in Trek history. It doesn't make CBS "liars." They just changed something.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

What you're not quite getting is that it doesn't matter what the in-universe reason is. The fact is that the first season of DSC showed bald, highly alien-like Klingons in clothing they've never been seen in before, flying around in ships whose designs look nothing like what we've seen before, and the producers of the show gave zero reason to the viewing audience as to why everything looks so different, other than the 'visual reboot' nonsense. But now they're saying, "oh, yeah, they just looked like that 'cause they shaved their heads for some reason we're pulling out of our ass, and now you'll all see hairy Klingons and K'T'Ingas and Bat'leth's and everything else just like normal! And, oh yeah, uh, we planned it all this way from the beginning! Yeah, we know what we're doing! Trust us!"

Yeah...no.

No, what you're not quite getting is I don't care if they changed their minds. You have faith in them or don't. No one gives a damn.

A claim was made (that the Klingons disappeared for a 100 years and came back suddenly hairless and no one noticed). That claim is bullshit by any reasonable standard. That's what I've said. If you hate their decisions, then hate their decisions. Don't make up bullshit that isn't true to try to make them look bad.

 

[WebLurker]

Look, at the end of the day, does it really matter? Season two decided to tweak the designs a bit. For some of us, it fixes something, for others it wasn't needed. Either way, does it really harm the show?

 

[Tuskin38]

We just don't buy the idea that this is what they planned all along; they obviously didn't.

No one is saying brining the hair back was their idea all along.

 

[Longinus]

No one is saying brining the hair back was their idea all along.

I though you did...

 

[Tuskin38]

No I just said they were not naturally bald.

 

[Dukhat]

No, what you're not quite getting is I don't care if they changed their minds. You have faith in them or don't. No one gives a damn.

A claim was made (that the Klingons disappeared for a 100 years and came back suddenly hairless and no one noticed). That claim is bullshit by any reasonable standard. That's what I've said. If you hate their decisions, then hate their decisions. Don't make up bullshit that isn't true to try to make them look bad.

CBS doesn’t give a shit what I think about their show. And they don’t give a shit what you think either. But since without proof, neither one of us can say for certain if what they say is true or not. I call bs on them based on what I’ve observed. I’m not just making shit up to make them look bad, because my opinion means nothing to them. They are making statements that I think are lies. And it pretty much goes back to the start when they said this show takes place 10 years before TOS, which I believe is also a lie just to get more people to watch it. If you don’t agree with me, fine. I don’t need to convince you of my opinions.

 

[Tuskin38]

CBS doesn’t give a shit what I think about their show. And they don’t give a shit what you think either. But since without proof, neither one of us can say for certain if what they say is true or not. I call bs on them based on what I’ve observed. I’m not just making shit up to make them look bad, because my opinion means nothing to them. They are making statements that I think are lies. And it pretty much goes back to the start when they said this show takes place 10 years before TOS, which I believe is also a lie just to get more people to watch it. If you don’t agree with me, fine. I don’t need to convince you of my opinions.

There is more evidence pointing towards what they're saying to be true then not.

 

[Longinus]

No I just said they were not naturally bald.

And I asked you to provide a citation for them saying that before or even during the first season.

 

[Tuskin38]

and I can't find one.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

CBS doesn’t give a shit what I think about their show. And they don’t give a shit what you think either. But since without proof, neither one of us can say for certain if what they say is true or not. I call bs on them based on what I’ve observed. I’m not just making shit up to make them look bad, because my opinion means nothing to them. They are making statements that I think are lies. And it pretty much goes back to the start when they said this show takes place 10 years before TOS, which I believe is also a lie just to get more people to watch it. If you don’t agree with me, fine. I don’t need to convince you of my opinions.

No matter what I say you just ramble about cbs being liars.

This is the entire post you made that I responded to: "What’s funny is that no one had seen Klingons for 100 years, and when they are finally seen, absolutely no one mentioned why they didn’t have hair.

“We’re not backpedaling,” my ass."

What you said in that post has *nothing* to do with CBS being liars. It is a description of what already happened in the show where we can all see it with our own eyes and it is blatantly *false*. That is all I have said. I don't care about your opinion of whose a liar. It has nothing to do with this conversation.

 

[oberth]

I never said it did. I don't care what anyone believes about Klingon hair. I'd just rather people not throw out bs arguments that are completely innaccurate as 'proof' of their position. Klingons did not disappear for a hundred years and suddenly show up hairless with no one noticing.

who would? everybody who saw them a century ago should be dead by now or so old that s/he won't be part of a starfleet crew, don't you think?

 

[Dukhat]

No matter what I say you just ramble about cbs being liars.

Then maybe you should stop responding to my posts.

and I can't find one.

Which makes it meaningless.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

You guys really need to chill out.

Klingons regrew their hair. Whoop whoop. Now let’s just watch this show and see if it has a good yarn to tell.

 

[eschaton]

You guys really need to chill out.

Klingons regrew their hair. Whoop whoop. Now let’s just watch this show and see if it has a good yarn to tell.

As I said in another thread, the setting exists to frame the story. Some people would rather it be the other way around, where the story exists to flesh out the setting. But that's how you get fanwank.

 

[fireproof78]

You guys really need to chill out.

Klingons regrew their hair. Whoop whoop. Now let’s just watch this show and see if it has a good yarn to tell.

Too reasonable.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

As I said in another thread, the setting exists to frame the story. Some people would rather it be the other way around, where the story exists to flesh out the setting. But that's how you get fanwank.

That’s why 99.9% fan fiction just feels useless.

“What’s your story about?”
“It’s about how Andorian physiology changed throughout the three centuries. How they used to have antennas further back in their head in TOS but then in ENT they moved them to the front-“
“Yeah, but what is it ABOUT?”
“I was just telling you!”

It’s like if “Emissary” was just nothing but the in universe politics of Bajor and Cardassia, without Sisko’s emotional arc and the character set ups.

 

[WebLurker]

As I said in another thread, the setting exists to frame the story. Some people would rather it be the other way around, where the story exists to flesh out the setting. But that's how you get fanwank.

Eh, I think there's room for both.