Klingons appearance - history repeats itself

[CaptGrumpy]

Once is a clarification. Twice smacks of ego. (Three or more times, you're just being ridiculous...)

The DSC Klingon look was doable in 1979, with the resources and budget of the time. If Gene wanted them to look like that then, he could have done it.

You seem to say that only Mr Roddenberry authorize change. He didn't own Trek, however.
Unfortunately, Gene is dead and has been for quite some time. The decision is out of his hands. It is up to the show runners to decide the visual aesthetic.
As far as violating canon, the Disc Klingons are canon, like it or not. Canon is the body of produced Star Trek. So anything that is officially produced with the Star Trek name is canon. The argument is for continuity and not canon.
I don't like the redesign, but, like @Greg Cox, I've been a fan for decades and I don't find the changes in aesthetic contradictory. Different times, different tastes. We all don't like change.

But, change is inevitable.

 

[seigezunt]

To be honest, the redesign of the Romulans in TNG bothered me far, far more than the evolution of the Klingons over the years. That was a redesign that felt entirely gratuitous to me.

 

[CaptGrumpy]

^ I agree. It didn't change how much I enjoyed TNG though

 

[Kor]

...
Also, the Klingon makeover in '79 demonstrably was an improvement that made them look cooler. The DSC makeover, not so much.
...

Agreed. They look freakin' disgusting.

Kor

 

[DaveyNY]

I demand Pepto Bismol-colored uniforms from TAS. Those are the only true Klingons!

Kor

Didn't that come about because the main production manager was color blind and didn't realize he was altering the colors inappropriately?
I remember reading something along those lines back a few years.

 

[DaveyNY]

You and I went through similar experiences. I was genuinely glad to see the changes made to the Klingons for TMP, that they finally looked like the fearsome warriors the TOS stories had tried to make them out to be with scant success. The introduction of the Klingon language was a plus. Granted, TNG went to the well a few times too many with the Klingons, but whatever.

DISCO's Unas/Silurian/Baby Godzilla Klingons smacks of someone wanting desperately to leave their mark on Trek, but managed to do little more than shit in the punchbowl.

I haven't been left with a chitty taste in my mouth after watching the first season, but I do believe that someone poured Vodka in the bowl and then somebody else came along poured a fifth of gin in also.
Never a good mix.

 

[Spot261]

Well, sure we'll survive. But there's a difference between "survive" and "like."

Also, the Klingon makeover in '79 demonstrably was an improvement that made them look cooler. The DSC makeover, not so much.

(Nor can it be justified by a previously unavailable makeup budget. It really is just change for change's sake.)

How can something be "demonstratably" an improvement in aesthetic terms? Surely by definition the fact of being subjective precludes a definitive value judgement? Lots of people hated the '79 makeover, that's the whole point of this thread, that the reaction we are seeing today is pretty much exacty the reaction we saw then, albeit using different media.

Agreed. They look freakin' disgusting.

Kor

They're aliens, you aren't supposed to find them attractive.

 

[Kor]

...They're aliens, you aren't supposed to find them attractive.

By the 24th century, some humans apparently do find Klingons attractive.

Kor

 

[Greg Cox]

.contradict three or four episodes of TOS.

Just to nitpick, the Klingons appeared in at least half a dozen episodes of TOS, not even counting the ones in which they were mentioned but didn't actually appear onscreen. And, as noted, those half-dozen episodes had been rerun endlessly in syndication for at least a decade before the movie finally came along.

It's not as though none of us remembered what the Klingons were "supposed" to look like before Mark Lenard popped up on the big screen in all his lumpy glory.

You'd think at this point we'd be used to the Klingons getting makeovers every few decades.

 

[XCV330]

How can something be "demonstratably" an improvement in aesthetic terms? Surely by definition the fact of being subjective precludes a definitive value judgement? Lots of people hated the '79 makeover, that's the whole point of this thread, that the reaction we are seeing today is pretty much exacty the reaction we saw then, albeit using different media.



They're aliens, you aren't supposed to find them attractive.

or that earthy-peaty smell is hard to resist

 

[CaptGrumpy]

You'd think at this point we'd be used to the Klingons getting makeovers every few decades.

Hell, even during TNG, the design wasn't consistant. Seems like Michael Dorn got a different forehead every season

 

[DaveyNY]

Hell, even during TNG, the design wasn't consistant. Seems like Michael Dorn got a different forehead every season

Those were just because of Klingon adult growth spurts.

 

[Spot261]

By the 24th century, some humans apparently do find Klingons attractive.

Kor

Just not you apparently

 

[Kor]

Just not you apparently

'Tis the bane of my existence.

Kor

 

[DaveyNY]

'Tis the bane of my existence.

Kor

I always thought Bane was a Klingon anyway.

 

[Greg Cox]

I always thought Bane was a Klingon anyway.

"When Vulcan is ashes, then you will have permission to die!"

 

[jaime]

Just to nitpick, the Klingons appeared in at least half a dozen episodes of TOS, not even counting the ones in which they were mentioned but didn't actually appear onscreen. And, as noted, those half-dozen episodes had been rerun endlessly in syndication for at least a decade before the movie finally came along.

It's not as though none of us remembered what the Klingons were "supposed" to look like before Mark Lenard popped up on the big screen in all his lumpy glory.

You'd think at this point we'd be used to the Klingons getting makeovers every few decades.

As many as that? It blurs. I have t see all of TOS, I suspect, but read all of it I. The Blish adaptations.

 

[dahj]

"When Vulcan is ashes, then you will have permission to die!"

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I wasn't happy with the Romulan redesign in TNG either. It was utterly pointless, and it only increased the continuity problems, e.g. in the multiple places where it had been effectively established that Vulcans and Romulans were outwardly identical in appearance.

 

[Greg Cox]

As many as that? It blurs. I have t see all of TOS, I suspect, but read all of it I. The Blish adaptations.

Just off the top of my head: "Errand of Mercy," "Friday's Child," "A Private Little War," "The Trouble with Tribbles," "The Day of the Dove," and "The Savage Curtain." And a Klingon ship poses a menace in "Elaan of Troyius" although I don't believe we see any of the crew.

Not to mention, of course, a decade's worth of comics, novels, toys, merchandise, etc, featuring the original TOS style Klingons. None of which were "canon," of course, but it's not as though the Klingons were some obscure footnote in Trek lore before the modern stuff came along. The old-school Klingons were cemented in the minds of an entire generation of fans.

The thing to remember is that back then TOS wasn't just "TOS." It was STAR TREK, the only and only. Trek did not come in different flavors yet, so those Klingons were the only Klingons any of us had seen for our entire lives. So we shouldn't minimize what a big change the "new" Klingons were back in '79, or dismiss the TOS Klingons as some forgotten aberration that's somehow less definitive than what came later.

And yet Trek went on, so, yeah, it's hard to get worked up over yet another makeover since we been through all this before . . . .