Klingons appearance - history repeats itself

[Greg Cox]

For the sake of playing devils advocate, when we consider the TMP redesign there had been 79 episodes of TOS. When we consider the DSC redesign there had been 50 years of Star Trek with however many episodes and 13 or so films. In those terms, the DSC redesign seems less... reasonable than the TMP one.

On the other hand, some of us watched those 79 episodes over and over for our entire lives before the "new" Klingons came along in TMP so they were just as burned into our brains as the ridged Klingons are for younger Trekkies.

It's all depends on what you grew up on. The ridged Klingons are no more authentic or "canonical" than the original TOS ones. And, with any luck, a whole new generation will grow up on DISCO's new, new Klingons--until the next makeover comes around.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

On the other hand, some of us watched those 79 episodes over and over for our entire lives before the "new" Klingons came along in TMP so they were just as burned into our brains as the ridged Klingons are for younger Trekkies.

It's all depends on what you grew up on. The ridged Klingons are no more authentic or "canonical" than the original TOS ones. And, with any luck, a whole new generation will grow up on DISCO's new, new Klingons--until the next makeover comes around.

I’d not thought of that

Someone elsewhere here asked “why would people care” that the Klingons were ever changed. I think you’ve just answered that question with your post and I agree with you 100%. The fact that the changes are important to us is because of the amount of investment in the show over the years. I’m thankful that people like yourself watched Star Trek to that extent first time round so that everything that followed could happen! Even Discovery

Tangentially, can you imagine what the *next* reimagining of the Klingons will look like? They might have tails... or horns... or they’ll probably be acting Trek out as holograms in our living rooms because television as we know it will be obsolete by then!

 

[DaveyNY]

I'm OK with Them changing the look of things 'slightly', but IMO, They went waaaay overboard with the 'Aliens-Head' look.

I didn't really have a problem with TMP changes back in the day either.
Especially since "The Creator" was the one doing it, and it use to actually be FUN to come up with 'head-canon' ways to make it all fit.

Now-a-days all many folks want to do is bitch and moan about things they have no control over and no say in.

I say make the best of it and just go with the flow.

So as far as I'm concerned these are just another off-shoot of the massive Klingon Empire who were in power at this time.
If They happen give us a background Klingon with some hair, so much the better.

 

[Kor]

I demand Pepto Bismol-colored uniforms from TAS. Those are the only true Klingons!

Kor

 

[lawman]

If us old-school Trekkies survived the Klingons getting a radical makeover back in '79, just to make them look cooler, modern fans can survive the same.

Well, sure we'll survive. But there's a difference between "survive" and "like."

Also, the Klingon makeover in '79 demonstrably was an improvement that made them look cooler. The DSC makeover, not so much.

(Nor can it be justified by a previously unavailable makeup budget. It really is just change for change's sake.)

 

[Greg Cox]

Well, sure we'll survive. But there's a difference between "survive" and "like."

But, speaking as somebody who grew on the TOS Klingons, I didn't dislike the new-look Klingons or let them mar my enjoyment of the movies or the subsequent TV series. I raised my eyebrow when the "new" Klingons first showed their bumpy faces in TMP, noted the snazzy new makeup, and just went with it. I didn't fret about whether TMP was "canon" or argue endlessly about whether TMP was actually in the same "timeline" as the TV series.

I settled back, watched Kirk deal with V'Ger, and chalked it up to artistic license. STAR TREK was still STAR TREK. Ditto when all the latter-day shows came along.

Unlike nowadays, where it can be hard to talk about DISCO without hearing, "But . . .but the Klingons, the Prime timeline, canon . . .. "

(As to which makeups are an improvement . . . well, that's an aesthetic issue that has nothing to do with continuity or "canon" or whatever.)

 

[DaveyNY]

I think part of the allure we had for the TMP Klingon's back then (which eased the uproar) was the really cool fact that Mark Leonard was playing the Klingon Captain of the lead ship.
At least for me, it was anyway.

 

[Butters]

I think they went over the top with the change. If I’d been in charge I wouldn’t have changed them at all, aside from some reconciliation between TOS Klingon uniforms and TNG ridges. But, they did go over the top and I’m happy to live with it.

It’s only telly, and it’s something to talk about.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Once is a clarification. Twice smacks of ego. (Three or more times, you're just being ridiculous...)

The DSC Klingon look was doable in 1979, with the resources and budget of the time. If Gene wanted them to look like that then, he could have done it.

(Nor can it be justified by a previously unavailable makeup budget. It really is just change for change's sake.)

I don't even think it was that. I think they were trying to blindside us with the whole Voq/Tyler plot twist (making us question our prejudices along with Burnham, I presume?) by making Voq (and thus the Klingons) completely unrecognizable from their human actors (which either established Klingon look wouldn't permit). And it blew up in their faces.

 

[Greg Cox]

I think part of the allure we had for the TMP Klingon's back then (which eased the uproar) was the really cool fact that Mark Leonard was playing the Klingon Captain of the lead ship.
At least for me, it was anyway.

Well, there was that.

Clearly, they need to cast Michael Dorn as a DISCO style Klingon just to blow people's minds. Or maybe Suzy Plakson? Or Christopher Plummer?

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

But, speaking as somebody who grew on the TOS Klingons, I didn't dislike the new-look Klingons or let them mar my enjoyment of the movies or the subsequent TV series. I raised my eyebrow when the "new" Klingons first showed their bumpy faces in TMP, noted the snazzy new makeup, and just went with it. I didn't fret about whether TMP was "canon" or argue endlessly about whether TMP was actually in the same "timeline" as the TV series.

I settled back, watched Kirk deal with V'Ger, and life went on. STAR TREK was still STAR TREK. Ditto when all the latter-day shows came along.

You and I went through similar experiences. I was genuinely glad to see the changes made to the Klingons for TMP, that they finally looked like the fearsome warriors the TOS stories had tried to make them out to be with scant success. The introduction of the Klingon language was a plus. Granted, TNG went to the well a few times too many with the Klingons, but whatever.

DISCO's Unas/Silurian/Baby Godzilla Klingons smacks of someone wanting desperately to leave their mark on Trek, but managed to do little more than shit in the punchbowl.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Once is a clarification. Twice smacks of ego. (Three or more times, you're just being ridiculous...)

Oh please. Characters are always evolving, visually and otherwise. There's no "limit" and it's rarely about ego on the part of those doing the changes.

The DSC Klingon look was doable in 1979, with the resources and budget of the time. If Gene wanted them to look like that then, he could have done it.

I don't think so. I doubt the DISCO team is using the exact techniques or materials from 1979. We're talking 40 years of advancement here.
Gene would probably push it even further if he had the resources from 2017. He wouldn't be satisfied with something from 40 years ago. Even nearly a decade later in TNG he had people tweaking the look. The people making the TOS films tweaked it too. The Klingon look didn't stop evolving in 1979.

 

[Vger23]

Since it's not real and it isn't meant to be real, it really shouldn't matter.

At all.

 

[Greg Cox]

Gene would probably push it even further if he had the resources from 2017. He wouldn't be satisfied with something from 40 years ago. Even nearly a decade later in TNG he had people tweaking the look. The people making the TOS films tweaked it too. The Klingon look didn't stop evolving in 1979.

And, honestly, trying to second-guess what Roddenberry would do these days, nearly three decades after he passed away, is pure speculation. Short of holding a seance, we have no idea what he would or wouldn't think of the DISCO Klingons, and I wouldn't presume to put words in his mouth.

Aesthetics aside, this is no different than what Gene himself did back in '79. And what we fans experienced back then, too. We didn't storm out of movie theaters in protest, or insist that Gene was lying about it being an actual sequel to the TV show. Nor did we reject TNG because it featured more of those damn movie Klingons instead of the "real" ones from TOS.

It would be nice if modern fans cut DISCO the same slack.

 

[Lord Garth]

The Evolution of the Klingons if they were a Heavy Metal Band:

TOS: They're starting out but they don't have their look yet.

The Movies: Hardcore Klingons. They get their look. They have their edge.

TNG & DS9: Glam Rock Klingons. They gain ultimate fame. They're more mainstream. This is their height.

Discovery: Then, for no reason... they shave their heads! And they want to be hardcore again, except harder.

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[WarpFactorZ]

Growing up, I loved the look of the TMP Klingons, and every time I watched TOS I would imagine they looked like that. Of course, Kor, Kang, and the other guy DID look like that, according to DS9.... but they actually looked more like TSFS-TUC Klingons... which didn't look like TMP Klingons at all (except for the funky armour/biker jackets).

Anyway, I would suggest that others who are unhappy with any give aesthetic just, as I did, use your imagination and say "They look exactly like my favourite Klingons". Just as you should do with the DISCO Enterprise, both inside and out.

 

[Greg Cox]

^ Works for me. And, ten years from now, when they revamp the Klingons one more time, we'll just roll with it again.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

That seems like a very petty reason

That's amusing. When it comes to movies and shows, I don't spend my money on things I think I won't enjoy. But, hey, if hate-watching is your thing....

 

[Groppler Zorn]

I think they were trying to blindside us with the whole Voq/Tyler plot twist (making us question our prejudices along with Burnham, I presume?) by making Voq (and thus the Klingons) completely unrecognizable from their human actors

I never thought of this!

That makes perfect sense - to hide Tyler under all the Voq makeup so that we’d “never” recognise him - which, tbf, wouldn’t have worked with the earlier makeup because actors were relatively easy to identify.

Problem is we’ve got a new species of Klingon to deal with. They’re probably not from the Ketha lowlands...

 

[jaime]

Well, there was that.

Clearly, they need to cast Michael Dorn as a DISCO style Klingon just to blow people's minds. Or maybe Suzy Plakson? Or Christopher Plummer?

They tried. Turned out Dorn didn’t like the idea for whatever reason.