Unlike some other universes, here in the Prime timeline you don't get promoted to captain without serving a full tour as XO.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x15 - "Will You Take My Hand?"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I think they want us to really root for Saru to eventually gain the captain's chair. He really grew as a leader in the second half of the season. I can see them saving such a well-earned and awesome pay off for the end of 2nd or 3rd season. As much as I actually like Burnham as a character, I really want to see Saru get a captaincy first.
That is my desktop wallpaper
Meanwhile, in downtown Ames, Iowa...
It doesn't help that Burnham is possibly the biggest Mary Sue in all of Star Trek legitimately on the level of Fanfiction tier Suedom.
The last 5-10 minutes of this episode were pretty much "Look how important and awesome Burnham is and how she's literally the best person ever and how everyone literally loves her so much and fawns over how great she is". The entire show, it's characters, it's plot, it's sheer universe, thoughout this entire season, has basically been over how amazing Burnham is and how she's the most important and smart and beautiful person ever. I'm not even exaggerating when I say nearly every major plot beat around this entire show is how important and awesome Burnham is and how she's so amazing and awesome it literally transcends space-time that even Mirror Universe versions think she is the most important and brilliant thing ever.
So Burnham is the most beautiful, brilliant, wonderful, amazing person ever, the sister of Spock, Sareks favourite child, literally smarter than the entire Vulcan race getting the best scores ever from the Vulcan Science academy, and to top this all off, they get the human equivalent of a brick to play her.
The Klingons would probably have been less likely to pursue peace with the Federation if their bomb was what crippled the Empire in TUC.
Just hit me we probably haven't seen the end of L'Rell or the Klingons, maybe even that arc is not over. I would prefer this. Let us see what happens with the Klingons. Do they form their "High Council" now? Do they elect a Chancellor? Do we get to see them becoming the Klingons we knew from TNG/DS9/VOY? And seeing more of these alien markets/embassies on Kronos would be welcome as well.
Hmm. Amanda said it had been "four years." You're placing JTB in 2268? How do you figure?
Well, no official record, but presumably other Starfleet officers at the time would have heard of it. In particular, if a random cadet on a completely different ship had heard about the mutineer, by name, within six months of the event (as demonstrated by Tilly in episode 3), it seems more than likely that the mutineer's adopted brother would have heard about it, whether it wound up "expunged" or not. So if one considers that "no mutiny" line as canonical (debatable within TOS itself, as discussed elsewhere, but for the sake of argument), it's preserved by a technicality, but not in a particularly convincing way.
Hear, hear. There won't even be much in the way of new Trek novels for the rest of this year. It'll be quite a drought.
Excellent point. I'd be inclined to say the writers were trying to up the ante by having the Klingon fleet closing in on Earth, but it just didn't work (and not just because of its implausibility given the strategic situation laid out in the immediately previous episode). A threat as dire as that could and should have had the Discovery crew actively debating what their best course of action was... especially after they found out the truth about their "real" mission. Their unspoken solidarity after just a few words from Burnham was awfully convenient... disappointingly so. The debate would have been interesting.
Ugly?!? It was beautiful. Exquisite. A delight. (Just as it was in TNG's "Relics" a few years earlier.)
There is nothing that compares to the original Enterprise bridge design. Update the screen graphics and the set materials and lighting, sure. But the design? It's perfect just the way it is.
Good points. I couldn't help noticing that a lot of other characters behaved in implausibly plot-driven ways here, but I didn't really notice that Georgiou did, too. Once it's pointed out, though, it's kind of glaring.
This. X1000.
She is the single most dangerous person in the Alpha/Beta quadrants with about a decade's worth of unredacted knowledge of the Defiant logs in her head to use when she sees fit. Huge military asset. They let her go without a double cross on her to get her back under lock-and-key?! Symptomised my dislike of the way the Federation/Starfleet seemed to "fast-forward" to a more buddy-buddy TNG-type mindset and given TOS, surely at that time there'd have been a backup plan by Cornballs to grab Giorgiou as soon as she is "freed" and lock her up their equivalent of Guantanemo.
Mostly enjoyed the episode otherwise but IMO not the best in the Season.
The above is a hyperbolic exaggeration, imo.
It's obvious - and has been from day one - that Michael has flaws, makes mistakes, has bad or awkward relationships with some people, has bad reactions to situations which could have gone better. Struggles with her inner darkness and errors in judgment. Struggles to find a balance between Vulcan logic and human emotion. Is working on relating to the rest of the crew better.
But even if it were true that she's the bestest ever in a way that makes her seem larger than life, how does that differ from male protagonists like Kirk, or Spock, or Picard or other lead characters in previous franchises who have done extra-ordinary things because they are...wait for it...extra-ordinary. She is meant to be an exceptional person who stumbled and made a bad decision, then had to work to atone for her mistakes and re-earn the trust of those she ended up working with. We literally see her doing shit which leads to bad consequences because she's not perfect. But she does try to stick to her principles and has over the course of the season managed to find where the line is for herself in terms of Federation ideals and thus, became a mouthpiece for that, when others were faltering. Good for her.
The dreaded MS term always seems to get dragged out, in particular, for female protagonists who display some level of exceptionalism. How are they ANY MORE implausible than the gazillion hyper-competent men with tragic pasts or some other quirk of fate who have previously gotten to be big damn hero lead characters in sci fi or genre films or TV shows?
It's obvious - and has been from day one - that Michael has flaws, makes mistakes, has bad or awkward relationships with some people, has bad reactions to situations which could have gone better. Struggles with her inner darkness and errors in judgment. Struggles to find a balance between Vulcan logic and human emotion. Is working on relating to the rest of the crew better.
But even if it were true that she's the bestest ever in a way that makes her seem larger than life, how does that differ from male protagonists like Kirk, or Spock, or Picard or other lead characters in previous franchises who have done extra-ordinary things because they are...wait for it...extra-ordinary. She is meant to be an exceptional person who stumbled and made a bad decision, then had to work to atone for her mistakes and re-earn the trust of those she ended up working with. We literally see her doing shit which leads to bad consequences because she's not perfect. But she does try to stick to her principles and has over the course of the season managed to find where the line is for herself in terms of Federation ideals and thus, became a mouthpiece for that, when others were faltering. Good for her.
The dreaded MS term always seems to get dragged out, in particular, for female protagonists who display some level of exceptionalism. How are they ANY MORE implausible than the gazillion hyper-competent men with tragic pasts or some other quirk of fate who have previously gotten to be big damn hero lead characters in sci fi or genre films or TV shows?
I gave it a 7 and that was my highest score this season.
Because literally the entire show warps around how awesome and important she is, the entire plot revolves around ridiculous levels of plot armour because of how much everyone loves her.
Look at the "Shoot me" scene. This makes absolutely, no sense, whatsoever, MU Georgiou has no reason to not shoot her, but because it's Burnham, literally the most important and beloved person in multiple universes, it actually works.
Lorca once again, the show knew it was completely nonsensical so they literally had to make up "It's fate" to explain why Burnham is literally the most important and perfect person ever. Lorca dies because basically of how awesome and amazing and beautiful Burnham is and how he can't possibly think of living without her.
"who stumbled and made a bad decision, then had to work to atone for her mistakes and re-earn the trust of those she ended up working with."
Wrong, she never did make a bad decision, she was right all along and actually did the right thing, it was the other characters not heeding her absolute perfect brilliance that literally started the Klingon War. While she had to "Atone" for her ways, it took what, 2 days before she was literally the Science Officer of the most important ship in the entire Federation with literally everyone treating her, as the acting Captain?
Again, this is already on top of she's the magical long lost sister of Spock, and favourite child of Sarek and Greyson as well as being the best student ever from the Vulcan Science Academy.
She's a mary sue by pretty much every definition. The cast fawns over her, Enemies fawn over her, everything and everyones lives revolve around her, every event revolves around her, her amazingness LITERALLY transcends space-time into multiple universes, the plot time after time again produces contrived reasons as to why the reality seems to bend around her and why she is the most important person ever.
She's not the only Mary Sue character in Star Trek, Wesley at the start of TNG for most part was a eye rolling Mary Sue as well, but Burnham is honestly worse. She honestly feels like a Fanfiction character brought to life. I mean, the backstory alone is something straight from amateur hour at Fanfiction.net.
Isn’t that just the same as the Discovery one? They look the same to me.
As the episode settles in my mind, I can't help but think of the expansion of the season order to 15 episodes involvement of Akiva Goldsman for the last one, the guy behind so many adaptations that seemed to lose the spirit of their source material. I liked how the conclusion of the mirror universe found the crew gelling together rekindling their beliefs in the ideals of Starfleet and being true to what made them join in the first place.
However, dragging the emperor back to the prime universe and putting her in charge seems a step backward. The agency of the crew put on the back burner once again. I find it hard to believe that the Saru who pulled the crew together after their betrayal by Lorca would allow them to be lied to and manipulated by another imposter. At the very least, it's not satisfying.
Then *all* the loose threads are wrapped us at once for tidy disposal as we get yet another "passing of the torch" with the Enterprise at the end. Burnham is not only has her record expunged but is now a hero of the Federation? Apparently, everyone is all cool and kosher with Cornwell to boot.
It really feels like all that was unique about Discovery has been expunged to set us up for next season. L'Rell and Ash are dispatched, along with the Emperor, Stamet's pesky gay partner is gone along with dealing with the spores, Michael is regular Starfleet, Saru is positioned to acquiesce command, and so on.
It's just open-ended enough that they could go in a couple of directions but I suspect they're going to go more in a more comfortable direction. I haven't liked everything Discovery has done but I'd rather it not go all safe and tame.
That's what you get when you change a 4:3 to 16:9
That many actors played Spock in Star Trek 3 alone.
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